Power Phasers....we need to start blowing up ships

[STSF_BluRox 0]

Spoiler, so if you've not seen it yet..stop reading

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Ok folks....so, Enterprise NX-01 launched in 2151. It's now three years later, so that takes us to 2154. Daniels now tells us that when he takes Archer into the future again, they're on the Enterprise-J, 400 YEARS IN THE FUTURE!! And they have Xindi crewmembers. Hmmm.

 

So, the Enterprise-E launched in 2372, so this means that in the 183 years between that launch, and the attack on the Enterprise-J, we've got to go through

to go through the Enterprise E, F, G, H and I. But, it looks like that should be right on average with the prior ships.

 

It took 221 years for them to go through the NX-01, Enterprise 1701, 1701-A, 1701-B, 1701-C, 1701-D and then 1701-E is launched. That would be an mean of 31.5 years. To go from E through J, is 31.6 years. Granted, both numbers are inclusive of the E, but....ok, I was ready to yell, but I guess they did to the math....lol.

[Dumbass 0]

In all that time from NX-01 to E the Klingons have only been through 3 battleship classes - K'Tinga, Vor'Cha and Nech'Var (I'm hesitant to include Nech'Var as a class since Gowron has the only one) - and 2 scout classes - B'rel and K'Vort.

 

I guess Klingons just build their ships to last.

[Vex Xiang 0]

Blu...huh? Granted I was cooking during the first half of the show...but did I miss something here? Enterprise J?

 

I think I'll have to watch this episode again :) Unless you're kidding. It sounds like you're kidding...that kind of event in Enterprise would be silly.

 

Though with the writing so far (and a Vulcan crying) I wouldn't be surprised if Picard on the Enterprise came swooping in from the 24th century with the help of Q to save the day.

[STSF_BluRox 0]

Blu...huh? Granted I was cooking during the first half of the show...but did I miss something here? Enterprise J?

 

I think I'll have to watch this episode again :) Unless you're kidding. It sounds like you're kidding...that kind of event in Enterprise would be silly.

 

Though with the writing so far (and a Vulcan crying) I wouldn't be surprised if Picard on the Enterprise came swooping in from the 24th century with the help of Q to save the day.

Not kidding.....they said Enterprise J, 400 years in the future.

[HyperDrive 0]

::sigh:: And where do the Xindi come into this? That is what I hate about Enterprise. They introduced a new species in the show, and say that they will be on Federation starships in the future... where have they been throughout the entire 24th century? :)

 

~HD

[Lance Moris 0]

well... think about this..

 

the Xindi might not be a part of the federation in the late 24th century... but by the time the 26th century comes around, they might be a part of it.

 

also, the nx-01 really screws with that mean service age, considering theres about a hundred years between that and the good ol constitution-class. so the last half of the list would be built to last.

[Dumbass 0]

Bajorans and Ferengi aren't part of the Federation either, but we still have Starfleet officers from those races. Heck, even Klingons were never completely integrated.

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Well, I'm going to watch the video now...so I'll post my review shortly. :) (And no, I didn't read any of the above...just saw the note for the thread and scrolled down).

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

As promised...I watched. I am impressed.

 

Now, dealing with above remarks, I'll give my responses.

 

1) The average of ships called Enterprise does indeed hold. When you also take into account the fact Starfleet originally wanted to decomission the NCC-1701 after she was over 25 years in age would support this claim. This doesn't mean the 1701-E, F, G, H and/or I were destroyed...rather decomissioned. I was fascinated by the Okudagram showing the vessel's design. It seems that by the 26th Century, the "engineering section" of starships has shrunk considerably. However, if you rewatch that section, you can make out at least two other Starfleet ships in the battle sequence. Very "compact" Defiant almost in style.

 

2) As for the Klingon ship designs, your information isn't all too accurate. While the ship's basic design has not changed, it's clear that there have been serious updates. Since in 2286 (Star Trek III), a Bird of Prey only had a crew of 12 yet the same ship held a crew of 30/40 by the 24th century is an easy example. The exterior designs may not have changed, but everything else (including their relative size to one another) did.

 

3) Regarding the Xindi in the 24th Century, I honestly don't know. However, when you think back throughout the history of the pre-NX01 franchise, I can think of at least one or two situations where I saw aliens that looked similar. In addition, we haven't seen the Gorn for over 30 years. Does that mean they don't exist in the 24th Century? We didn't hear of the Tholians for over 30 years, but it seems they are alive and kicking in the 24th Century according to Season 6 of DS9.

 

4) Keep in mind that if I recall the scene correctly, the Klingon Empire has merged into the Federation by the 26th Century. We also have no idea how large it is. Quite possible that over half of the Milky Way Galaxy is now explored...we just don't know.

 

5) The NX01 doesn't necessarily hurt the "mean ship" average. I say this for two reasons. First, she isn't a Federation starship. Second, we have no idea how long she was in service. For all we know, the NX01 served as Starfleet's "U.S.S. Constitution," commissioned and an active vessel...though the only thing she does is take aboard tourists. Perhaps this ended in the late 22nd/early 23rd century with the Constitution Class starship project. Another alternative is to suggest there was in fact another vessel called Enterprise prior to the NCC-1701. I don't believe there's anything to discount this, in fact there may be evidence to support it. In Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Decker shows a display of all "the ships named Enterprise." Putting the space shuttle down and assuming the NX01 was one, there is still one slide unaccounted for.

[Travis Kroells 0]

::groans:: Of all the blasted episodes for my VCR to blow up!!!

[LoAmi 0]

::sigh:: And where do the Xindi come into this? That is what I hate about Enterprise. They introduced a new species in the show, and say that they will be on Federation starships in the future... where have they been throughout the entire 24th century? :)

 

~HD

I'm not sure that this is a problem... How many planets are there? How many of them are Federation members? And, still, most of the officers are earthlings. Maybe we just never saw a Xindi officer before (we have seen only a small fraction of the Federation starships out there)...

[NDak 0]

Also remebr we still have the Romulan wars to go through, for all we know the current NX-01 might get blown up (I think they have already said thta is oging to happen) So for all we knowwe might even get a Daedalus-class Enterprise that may have a different NCC...although that would raise some serious issues with the Numbering system...

[FredM 0]

So for all we knowwe might even get a Daedalus-class Enterprise that may have a different NCC...although that would raise some serious issues with the Numbering system...

Hey there,

 

Eh, not sure. I mean, we technically don't have an official launch date for the NCC-1701. But taking a wild guess, all it would mean is that between 2161 and 2340ish, Starfleet produced over 1700 ships prior to the Enterprise commanded by Robert April, then Christopher Pike, then James T. Kirk.

 

Also remember something we've seen since TOS. Ship names do not always stick with the same registery. Aka: U.S.S. Defiant, originally NCC-1764, then one hundred or so years later NX/NCC-74205. Heck, supposedly the Constitution Class U.S.S. Eagle was NCC-967 or something.

 

According to DITL, there's a solid 30 year time frame where we have no clue what ships were in production. In addition, something I think is possible, the Daedalus Class might have been in service/created in response to the Romulan War. Thus, they were probably active before the formation of the Federation itself.

[Vex Xiang 0]

Id love to see a Daedalus on Enterprise. But Trek usually has the Enterprise as the most powerful ship in the fleet...so I cant imagine they'd start producing the Daedalus while the NX01 was still around (for the purposes of the show).

 

Edit...strike that. The Excelsior was around at the end of Ent-A's run. But the Ent-A was soon after decomissioned and it was only in a couple movies, not an entire series. I dunno. But if they started showing Daedalus classes in ENT...I sure would want them to ditch the NX.

Edited March 5, 2004 by Vex Xiang

[NDak 0]

 

Eh, not sure. I mean, we technically don't have an official launch date for the NCC-1701. But taking a wild guess, all it would mean is that between 2161 and 2340ish, Starfleet produced over 1700 ships prior to the Enterprise commanded by Robert April, then Christopher Pike, then James T. Kirk.

 

Also remember something we've seen since TOS. Ship names do not always stick with the same registery. Aka: U.S.S. Defiant, originally NCC-1764, then one hundred or so years later NX/NCC-74205. Heck, supposedly the Constitution Class U.S.S. Eagle was NCC-967 or something.

 

According to DITL, there's a solid 30 year time frame where we have no clue what ships were in production. In addition, something I think is possible, the Daedalus Class might have been in service/created in response to the Romulan War. Thus, they were probably active before the formation of the Federation itself.

Don't yah mean 2240? ;)

 

As for the numbering issues: It would seem plausable that there would be another Enterprisein between Nx-01 and NCC-1701 and that it could have a different NCC, I just don't that that necisarly means they built 1700 starships in a period of about 60 years, unl;ess the Starfleet is a whole heck of a lot bigger than I imagined.

 

On yeah and, as we all know the only reason Enterpise got to keep her NCC was so it wouldn't mess with viewers heads (According to Okuda :) )

Edited March 5, 2004 by Ern_Ndak

[Dumbass 0]

I'm sorry, but the Daedalus class is the UGLIEST starship I ever seen. Just going by appearence the NX-01 looks more advanced. Heck, it even looks more advanced than the NCC-1701 before the refit.

[Vex Xiang 0]

Exactly. The NX01 just doesnt fit. It looks 'cool' and all, but it doesnt fit with the series. Its like if they did a prequel to M*A*S*H set in WWII and used ambulances that looked like hummers.

 

The Daeadalus I think is a good looking ship...they could even change it slightly so it doesnt look like a baseball attached to a tin can. But it would at least fit with the series.

 

Some folks have done some renderings on the Internet and from many angles its an attractive vessel.

[Seiben 0]

The Daeadules class looks very nice, IMO, but isn't the Daedalus Class a Medical ship? If so, I doubt Paramount would make a Daedules Enterprise, though it'd be cool to see.

[Dumbass 0]

The USS Pasteur, which is a future medical ship commanded by CPT Beverly Picard, is an Olympic class ship. The Olympic class does somewhat resemble the Daedalus class so the confusion is understandable. I don't think all Olympic class ships are medical ships.

Edited March 5, 2004 by Dumbass

[Vex Xiang 0]

According to the ST tech manual and ditl.org, the Daedalus class starships were built to provide an active fleet for the newly formed Starfleet. Or in this case I guess the newly formed Federation of Planets. I would assume that the Daedalus was the workhorse of the fleet at the time.

 

If the fleet was so small at the beginning I can't imagine them building an entire class just for one purpose. But rather build large multipurpose vessels.

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Multipurpose? Eh, I think having a major war and finding out your ships aren't a match for the other side's weapons would be enough to cause a new class.

 

As for how the NX-01 appears, I have to disagree. I think it does fit. I think you have to keep in mind a few realities, all focusing on the fact you have special effects from the 1960s trying to look more advanced than those of 2004. It just ain't gonna happen. In addition, of the NX-01 looked more basic than the 1701-TOS TV era, then you'd probably have an issue.

 

Now, looking at it from within the Trek universe, I must say I think the NX-01 is very bulky. Most TOS era ships had a very smooth hull surface. This has some tactical advantages in addition to other possible benefits. Tactical you ask? Well, if you can't find a box that looks like it could be a subspace communicator on the hull, hard to target it. :)

[Travis Kroells 0]

Wow, Fred's getting all tactical on us....Hide any distinguishing things from him!

[Merina 0]

Quite interesting to say the least.

[MisterSmith 0]

I heard along time ago that during this season they were going to bring in a few more ships...Maybe it will happen during the finale.

 

Smith

[FredM 0]

I heard along time ago that during this season they were going to bring in a few more ships...Maybe it will happen during the finale.

Hey there,

 

Ya know, I remember hearing that too. Perhaps something happens near Earth? I mean, from June of last year the NX-02 was what...ten months away from being operational? Wouldn't that make it about this time?