Heart Felt Condolences.....Katrina

[eagle 0]

Eagle, I'm fine. I don't live in Florida. :)

 

But I do know how frightening hurricanes are. I survived two of them when I lived in Connecticut. Luckily, they weren't very bad. A category 5...that's just awful.

i know where you are at...but we got reports here that katrina was also moving your way...... :blink: :P

[WesleyMustDie 0]

i know where you are at...but we got reports here that katrina was also moving your way...... :blink: :P

She was. All I got was a thunderstorm though. Good thing she didn't actually make it to Arkansas...Hurricanes are terrifying.

[George_Pickett 0]

Glad your back, and OK :blink:

[WesleyMustDie 0]

Please tell me the whole site isn't going to say that! :blink:

 

Thanks guys. :P

[Darrik 0]

Please tell me the whole site isn't going to say that! :blink:

 

Thanks guys. :P

...must...resist...comment....

[Dumbass 0]

Please tell me the whole site isn't going to say that! :blink:

Glad your back, and OK :P

[Images 0]

After the Tsunami, I saw news report after news report commenting on the fact that because a large amount of the people in Indonesia, Sumatra and the surrounding areas lived in huts and shacks, their homes were easily swept away and destroyed with everything inside, including the inhabitants. Well in the States there's the same problem. Far far far too many homes are still being built out of nothing else but wood, just making them BIG shacks that can be easily swept away. On my trips to the US I made a note of taking photos at as many construction sites as I could (exciting stuff huh?) and sent the pics to my brother who's a building surveyor. He couldn't believe these were serious pics, that there was next to no foundation dug for the base of the building and that anything could knock 'em over like that. I saw the images of New Orleans and you can just see how easily structures made like that are easily wiped out. I'm just surprised that they haven't thought about this before. Here in Hong Kong we constantly get Typhoons so almost every building is made of brick and concrete and designed to face the harsh weather, even in my little rural village. Rarely does anything ever fall over even in the worst storms except perhaps some trees and scaffolding. If there's one thing I hope that Katrina teaches, its that wood houses may look pretty, but they aren't any good against something nasty.

 

And watching the news I just feel sorry for the poor blighters in New Orleans and in the South in general. This relief effort is so badly organised its sickening. There are stadiums full of hospital patients with no medical facilities so they are just dying and since there aren't any body bags they're covering them up with anything they can find. I saw an image of a dead man in a wheelchair with a plastic bag over his head and I wanted to punch someone. The worst part is that 80 percent of the National Guard isn't there to help since they're over in Iraq. Arg! Its infuriating.

[Nemesis 0]

Honestly Images, I think that the foundations of their buildings are the least of the problems over there. I think they need to be more concerned about making better Levees, perhaps ones with pumps... I dunno I'm not a structural engineer... but what this has become is basically like what you'd see in the movies. It's terrifying that this is real life, what happens if something worse hits?

[Images 0]

No dam or levee system is perfect, there's always gonna be a time when the water breaks through and if a house doesn't have any stability due to its foundations or what its made of it will be destroyed. I think thats a pretty big problem.

[FredM 0]

Well in the States there's the same problem. Far far far too many homes are still being built out of nothing else but wood, just making them BIG shacks that can be easily swept away. On my trips to the US I made a note of taking photos at as many construction sites as I could (exciting stuff huh?) and sent the pics to my brother who's a building surveyor. He couldn't believe these were serious pics, that there was next to no foundation dug for the base of the building and that anything could knock 'em over like that.

Hey there,

 

I'm going to apologize now for the fact this post may turn into something of a rant. After living in South Florida my entire life and surviving more hurricanes than I can count, I have a very personal view/take on this entire situation. No, I'm not an authority, but going thru them for over two decades I have picked up a few things. :blink:

 

Images, I think your statement is very misleading. A simple reality is that buildings in certain areas of the United States do not need to be built to the same code as others. A house in New York needs to be more concerned with being able to withstand a snow storm vs a 160mph (257kph) hurricane.

 

Building codes within many areas of the Southeastern United States are higher than what many might think. In Florida, especially the south, they are some of the toughest anywhere on the planet. Buildings must essentially be able to withstand a certain wind speed or else you don't get an occupational certification. This is common sense. Some of these codes were being lowered in the 1980's and many came to realize the horror of that decision when Hurricane Andrew struck the Miami area. Since then, the codes have been made even stronger than before. Being blunt, in a hurricane the foundation isn't as important as the construction of the roof.

 

The problem is that even though Mississippi and Louisiana were struck by major hurricanes in the late 1960s, no substantial building codes were put into place. Nothing, nada, zip. Only some counties had some regulations but they were not universal. The result is there are many structures that aren't in existence now. I'm not saying that there wouldn't have been devastation, but from a wind speed point of view...this storm was weaker than Andrew yet the damage was far worse. There is no excuse for this.

 

I'm sorry, despite what some international media are claiming, this isn't global warming folks. A storm of equal size, strength and almost an identical past hit this exact same area in the middle of August, 1969. Hurricanes seasons go thru cycles...and I doubt when major storms hit Florida in the 1930s you could say it was the fault of fossil fuels.

 

What's the expression...those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it?

 

As for the relief effort, I'm again going to loose it here. The Director of the National Hurricane Center for the United States had to, personally, call the Mayor of New Orleans before they would issue a mandatory evacuation of the city. A Category 5 (at that time) storm is about to hit, something they knew was going to be a close call for over five days, and no one took it seriously. This is a storm that they had dreamed about for years...should it exist, it would flood the city. So why, knowing this, were people still in the city having a party the night it hit?!?

 

I mean no disrespect to folks, but it really angers me to see someone on TV who is complaining about the fact they have no power, no food, no water, the background having an image of their destroyed home and they're complaining about where the help is. They should not have been there...period. They should have left the area while they could and I know for a fact there was some type of evacuation system in place for people who couldn't leave on their own. For crying out loud, people are able to get to the Superdome now for shelter (and relocation) but they couldn't find a way to get there before 80% of the city was underwater and the power was still on? No, I think most have agreed there would be a large number of people that they couldn't get out...but when stories of 18 year old kids stealing a schoolbus (from a lot full of hundreds of them) to get 100 people out...I have to wonder. Why weren't those buses in operation before the storm? What the heck was the local government over there doing?!? It seems they had the resources but "choose" not to use them. Why were people surprised that water levels went to roof level when they were reporting two days before (even here in New Zealand) that it might rise to 28 feet?

 

To me, you know what was amazing? Some of the first photos and images I saw of the area showed windows on houses. Now you might be asking why I'm surprised at this? Well, most people who take a hurricane seriously, put up some sort of storm shutters or protection. Heck, people even try to tape up the windows if there's nothing else available. However, in many areas, I don't see evidence of this being done. It tells/shows me that this was a sign many people in the area simply believed the storm would go elsewhere. They didn't prepare for it.

 

As for the levee system, I found out today from a relative that it's being said that it was designed to withstand a Category 3 hurricane. This storm was just below Category 5 when it hit. What I find amazing is that in some areas, they were depending on 100 year old pumping stations in the event of a breach. Even worse is that they apparently didn't have a method of getting these pumps on when the power went out, needing to physically go out to turn on backups. When they said it would be 4:00pm the afternoon after the storm hit before they could get the first pumping stations on, I thought I was drunk.

 

And no disrespect, but all the National Guard on the planet isn't going to do any good when they're having to call in Navy SEALS to do "landings" and rescue people.

 

Ending my rant, a good lifelong friend of mine who moved from Florida to that area (lived a near water actually) is safe with family.

 

I mean no dishonor against those suffering, please do not think that. I know that some of the above simply doesn't apply to people who now find themselves struggling to survive. The problem to me is that there are many individuals suffering right now that shouldn't be. There are many people dead right now that have no reason to be.

 

The gross ignorance and, I'm sorry, blunt stupidity of some people with the preparation for this storm is just too much for me to comprehend.

Edited September 3, 2005 by FredM

[WxMurray 0]

Hey there,

 

I'm going to apologize now for the fact this post may turn into something of a rant. After living in South Florida my entire life and surviving more hurricanes than I can count, I have a very personal view/take on this entire situation. No, I'm not an authority, but going thru them for over two decades I have picked up a few things. :blink:

 

Images, I think your statement is very misleading. A simple reality is that buildings in certain areas of the United States do not need to be built to the same code as others. A house in New York needs to be more concerned with being able to withstand a snow storm vs a 160mph (257kph) hurricane.

 

Building codes within many areas of the Southeastern United States are higher than what many might think. In Florida, especially the south, they are some of the toughest anywhere on the planet. Buildings must essentially be able to withstand a certain wind speed or else you don't get an occupational certification. This is common sense. Some of these codes were being lowered in the 1980's and many came to realize the horror of that decision when Hurricane Andrew struck the Miami area. Since then, the codes have been made even stronger than before. Being blunt, in a hurricane the foundation isn't as important as the construction of the roof.

 

The problem is that even though Mississippi and Louisiana were struck by major hurricanes in the late 1960s, no substantial building codes were put into place. Nothing, nada, zip. Only some counties had some regulations but they were not universal. The result is there are many structures that aren't in existence now. I'm not saying that there wouldn't have been devastation, but from a wind speed point of view...this storm was weaker than Andrew yet the damage was far worse. There is no excuse for this.

 

I'm sorry, despite what some international media are claiming, this isn't global warming folks. A storm of equal size, strength and almost an identical past hit this exact same area in the middle of August, 1969. Hurricanes seasons go thru cycles...and I doubt when major storms hit Florida in the 1930s you could say it was the fault of fossil fuels.

 

What's the expression...those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it?

 

As for the relief effort, I'm again going to loose it here. The Director of the National Hurricane Center for the United States had to, personally, call the Mayor of New Orleans before they would issue a mandatory evacuation of the city. A Category 5 (at that time) storm is about to hit, something they knew was going to be a close call for over five days, and no one took it seriously.  This is a storm that they had dreamed about for years...should it exist, it would flood the city. So why, knowing this, were people still in the city having a party the night it hit?!?

 

I mean no disrespect to folks, but it really angers me to see someone on TV who is complaining about the fact they have no power, no food, no water, the background having an image of their destroyed home and they're complaining about where the help is. They should not have been there...period. They should have left the area while they could and I know for a fact there was some type of evacuation system in place for people who couldn't leave on their own. For crying out loud, people are able to get to the Superdome now for shelter (and relocation) but they couldn't find a way to get there before 80% of the city was underwater and the power was still on? No, I think most have agreed there would be a large number of people that they couldn't get out...but when stories of 18 year old kids stealing a schoolbus (from a lot full of hundreds of them) to get 100 people out...I have to wonder. Why weren't those buses in operation before the storm? What the heck was the local government over there doing?!? It seems they had the resources but "choose" not to use them. Why were people surprised that water levels went to roof level when they were reporting two days before (even here in New Zealand) that it might rise to 28 feet?

 

To me, you know what was amazing? Some of the first photos and images I saw of the area showed windows on houses. Now you might be asking why I'm surprised at this? Well, most people who take a hurricane seriously, put up some sort of storm shutters or protection. Heck, people even try to tape up the windows if there's nothing else available. However, in many areas, I don't see evidence of this being done. It tells/shows me that this was a sign many people in the area simply believed the storm would go elsewhere. They didn't prepare for it.

 

As for the levee system, I found out today from a relative that it's being said that it was designed to withstand a Category 3 hurricane. This storm was just below Category 5 when it hit. What I find amazing is that in some areas, they were depending on 100 year old pumping stations in the event of a breach. Even worse is that they apparently didn't have a method of getting these pumps on when the power went out, needing to physically go out to turn on backups. When they said it would be 4:00pm the afternoon after the storm hit before they could get the first pumping stations on, I thought I was drunk.

 

And no disrespect, but all the National Guard on the planet isn't going to do any good when they're having to call in Navy SEALS to do "landings" and rescue people.

 

Ending my rant, a good lifelong friend of mine who moved from Florida to that area (lived a near water actually) is safe with family.

 

I mean no dishonor against those suffering, please do not think that. I know that some of the above simply doesn't apply to people who now find themselves struggling to survive. The problem to me is that there are many individuals suffering right now that shouldn't be. There are many people dead right now that have no reason to be.

 

The gross ignorance and, I'm sorry, blunt stupidity of some people with the preparation for this storm is just too much for me to comprehend.

What he said. That's about the extent of it.

Edited September 3, 2005 by WxMurray

[Images 0]

I dunno, I'm only annoyed at the people who COULD have moved out but didn't. Any of you hear about these guests at the Hyatt getting first priority in the evacuation? Madness! There are a lot of people who were in hospital or were in such dire straits and they have been hurt so badly, but it could have been easier to help them if so many people who had the chance actually took it instead of being lazy and oafish.

 

...Oh and I'm still angry at construction using wood in a known stormy location. Stupidity.

[Sam_SemaJ 0]

Hey all,

 

  This thread is about expressing condolences for those dealing with the aftermath of the storm.  Let's avoid devolving into a political debate about poverty.  The point it, what happened there was devastating and we, as Americans, should be reaching out in whatever capacity we can.

 

Thanks for understanding,

Grom

Thank You Grom...

 

Along with what you said, In the large scale its unfortunate that blame is trying to be pushed around. Let's forget who did/didn't do what and help these people, these are lives, not statistics. It is so devastating what happened and the task of returning lifestyle to these people is overwhelming. May God be with them all, and may they know His presence...

 

Sam's Player

Edited September 3, 2005 by Sam_SemaJ

[Images 0]

Thank You Grom...

 

Along with what you said, In the large scale its unfortunate that blame is trying to be pushed around. Let's forget who did/didn't do what and help these people, these are lives, not statistics. It is so devastating what happened and the task of returning lifestyle to these people is overwhelming. May God be with them all, and may they know His presence...

 

Sam's Player

Woah woah woah, can we keep divine worship out of this? I ain't sayin' what my personal beliefs are in any way but I think its a bit out of place. I know we're all feeling for these people and hoping for the best but I'd like to keep religion out of the equation if thats cool with everyone.

 

Sorry, I'm probably just tense thinking about how this entire situation has been...trying to think of a sanitary term...messed up in such a disgusting manner. People are dying for no reason and the relief looks like it was orchestrated by muppets. I hope heads roll for this, I really do.

[Sam_SemaJ 0]

Thats not really ok with me...part of my personal condolences and what I hope for the well being of these people relates to God, and I veiw STSF as a place I'm free to express that. If anyone has a problem with that, please contact your local GM and they can bring it up to me. Not trying to be battlesome, just think that i shouldn't really be chided for what I said...

 

Sam's Player :blink:

[DigitalLava 0]

Im not going to try to take away from the devistation that is occuring in New Orleans but what I find a little weird is when things worse than whats happening to people in New Orleans isnt made as public like in third world countries ect. Just my view.

[Darrik 0]

Woah woah woah, can we keep divine worship out of this? I ain't sayin' what my personal beliefs are in any way but I think its a bit out of place. I know we're all feeling for these people and hoping for the best but I'd like to keep religion out of the equation if thats cool with everyone.

 

Sorry, I'm probably just tense thinking about how this entire situation has been...trying to think of a sanitary term...messed up in such a disgusting manner. People are dying for no reason and the relief looks like it was orchestrated by muppets. I hope heads roll for this, I really do.

If it was orchestrated by the Muppets, the people would have evacuated before the storm hit land. Political puppets, well, that's what's going on now.

 

Oh, and heads are rolling. Haven't you seen the photos?

 

 

As for the buildings, the only defense I can think of is that materials other than wood might go to far down in the ground and hit water.

Edited September 3, 2005 by Darrik

[Sam_SemaJ 0]

Im not going to try to take away from the devistation that is occuring in New Orleans but what I find a little weird is when things worse than whats happening to people in New Orleans isnt made as public like in third world countries ect. Just my view.

 

 

Its also unfortunate that most of the coverage on the news has been negitive...I'd appreciate seeing some positive, happy news about the Katrina situation instead of feeling like junk everytime i turn the news on...

 

Sam

Edited September 3, 2005 by Sam_SemaJ

[Darrik 0]

Its also unfortunate that most of the coverage on the news has been negitive...I'd appreciate seeing some positive, happy news about the Katrina situation instead of feeling like junk everytime i turn the news on...

 

Sam

You could read about Condie buying shoes...

 

Or maybe 1000 innocent civilians in Iraq dying because of us?

 

For more on that, check out this blog's entries on Sept. 1, 2005.

[DigitalLava 0]

You could read about Condie buying shoes...

 

Or maybe 1000 innocent civilians in Iraq dying because of us?

 

For more on that, check out this blog's entries on Sept. 1, 2005.

heh

[eagle 0]

hello all....there have been many good points brought to bear here in this forum

and i do agree with a lot of the points made.....and fred fyi we share a common

theme here in this debate, i too lived in central florida for the majority of my life

and understand all too well the bldg. codes....materials etc. mandated for and is

required to build a safe domicile.......and to the other remarks.....yes there were

people whom made the wrong deceision to stay ..flying in the face of the coming

cat 5 h-cane, and some have paid with their lives for that stupid,unrationial ill made

choice.....but heywhat has occured has occured...that being said, one the federal

government dropped the ball, the state and local agencies dropped the ball many

dropped the ball......IT DOES NOT MATTER RIGHT NOW...there will be ample time

for head rolling,recriminations,charges,etc,etc....LATER.....what does matter is the

fact FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS NEED HELP NOW........we can point fingers whack off

heads,prosecute later until the cows come ........but do it at a later date...not now

as far as a divine beleif goes we are entitled to have and share that beleif as long

as it does not infringe upon the beleifs of others........that may be all some in dire

straights have to cling to .....and i would not nor will not be a party to taking that

away from anyone, myself as well as others in this community have served and

shed blood in the service of this great land to help GUARNTEE that right......well

enough of my ramblings ...if at all possible.......let us all help those less fortunate

as we can...whether it is in prayer,monentary,commodities,volunteer,blood,etc.

we all share this planet....and need to help each other when needed..let us not drop the ball........and be held accountable to our own conchence later thinking if only

i /we had just done this or that to help...maybe we would have made a difference

 

love you all...and may god bless..

:P :blink:

[Grom 0]

STSF Community,

 

This situation is obviously very contentious and emotions are beginning to boil over. With that in mind, I will have to close this thread. Thank you for understanding. :blink:

 

Sincerely,

STSF GromVik