I've got a question...

[JesusTrekkie 0]

If I were to want to make a t-shirt that advertised stsf.net in some way, who would be the person I should ask for permission to do so?

[Grom 0]

JesusTrekkie

 

You would need to e-mail Atragon9 for something like that.

 

-Grom

[Atragon9 0]

If I were to want to make a t-shirt that advertised stsf.net in some way, who would be the person I should ask for permission to do so?

Yes, could you send me a bmp or jpg of what the shirt will look like? You can either post it here (for all to abuse, eh?) or just send it to me directly at [email protected]

 

Thanks.

 

[Nicolas Lepage 0]

Maybe I should think about making a whole STSF-Collection. That way we could tell people in europe that we're out there...have them join and then finally....... get a sim at a decent time. ::dreaming:: What would we be without our dreams and illusions...

[Mithraia Coeur 0]

I would SO want an Agincourt Tee. And I'd wear it too. ;P

[Atragon9 0]

Yes, well, this discussion opens up an old can of worms. We tried to set up an STSF online store (we love cafepress.com) that sold all manner of shirts, aprons, mousepads, teddy bears, even thong underwear (the mind reels) with our graphics on them. However, the company that runs these online stores (grrrr, we *LOVE* cafepress.com, oy!) wouldn't even let Manticore keep its products live since they include possibly copyrighted material from Paramount. If someone among us was a real whiz with graphic design and wants to propose some ideas for logos for STSF that won't step on Paramount's images, the GM Council is always interested.

 

Anyway, these are some of the reasons why I need to see any users' proposed graphics to be used on items that mention STSF, thanks.

 

[Kansas_Jones 0]

If I were to want to make a t-shirt that advertised stsf.net in some way, who would be the person I should ask for permission to do so?

 

Good luck with your project JesusTrekkie! ;)

 

As for what A9 mentioned, that really is a rock and a hard place. Since everything Trek is copyrighted, and this is a Trek based simming forum - makes it kind of hard to NOT come up with non-copyrighted material.

 

Random question - say for example I was a graphic artist and took the UFP (which sure looks like a version of the UN symbol - I wonder if Paramount had copy right talks with them :P ) symbol. Changed the colors, removed the inner starfield, and stuck say the Agincourt or the Hood's ship name and call numbers in the middle where the starfield used to be, along with STSF.net right below the ship name. No ship images. No Trek command symbol. Something that may or may not be the original UFP symbol. Would this be doable or still run into some problems copyright wise?

 

On a personal note, I think it would be really great to have some STSF products available. Would be fun and interesting to "spread the word".

 

- Kansas ;)

Edited May 13, 2005 by Kansas_Jones

[JesusTrekkie 0]

Hmm my idea of a t-shirt actually would not have any graphics on it...

 

::pauses for gasps::

 

No, what I'm thinking of is some witty piece of the front (which I am currently concocting) and then:

 

Star Trek Simulation Forum

stsf.net

 

on the back. I'm perfectly willing to say what I'd like to have on the front... as soon as I get something to put on the front that is ;) . Several design ideas are currently under consideration here (I have a family full of trekkies to help, too!). And... erm... sorry if I start a riot with this request... lot of interested people out there when it comes to t-shirts...

 

And the reason I am making t-shirts in the first place? I'm starting college this fall and want to be a walking target... er... known as a trekkie from the start. ;)

[Dumbass 0]

We tried to set up an STSF online store (we love cafepress.com) that sold all manner of shirts, aprons, mousepads, teddy bears, even thong underwear (the mind reels) with our graphics on them.

Ooh, can I get a thong that says "Property of Huff" on it? ;)

[Neversummer 0]

I'll buy a thong too.

[Ashley Corson 0]

Were do I go?????

[LoAmi 0]

Random question - say for example I was a graphic artist and took the UFP (which sure looks like a version of the UN symbol - I wonder if Paramount had copy right talks with them ;) ) symbol. Changed the colors, removed the inner starfield, and stuck say the Agincourt or the Hood's ship name and call numbers in the middle where the starfield used to be, along with STSF.net right below the ship name.

There are two *more* legal issues here (yuck!):

 

One is that it's not just copyrights you have to worry about, it's trademarks.

Here's a link to an article on fair use of trademarks. It's quite limited, especially when you're using the trademark for a product that's so similar to the original trademark owner's business. For comparison, here's a bit about the fair use rights associated with copyrights, which are much more limited than one would think.

 

The second is the concept of "derivative works", which applies to copyrighted material. Basically, a copyrighted graphic retains its ownership no matter how many modifications you make to it.

 

I am not a lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice. :-)

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Just a point of note however. Though anything you create is technically held under copyright, items must be registered with the United States government in order for you to hold the ability to sue for recovery of damages...just a point of clarification there. ;)

[STSF NDak 0]

Note: Copyright exists for all intensive purposes upon creation. Yes for entiltlement law suites you do have to "register" it, however you can do so at any time (so long as you can meet the requirements.)

 

 

Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."

 

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.

 

If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

 

 

Trademarked items...such as logo or graphic are a different story, the difference between ® and ™ is one is Registered with the Federal Government while the other isn't.

 

Which brings me to a point heh.... Star Trek is a Trademarked symbol of Paramount...inturn Viacom. Now while you can use anything under the "fair-use" clause so long as you stick that little ™ on it. HOWEVER, that's if your not making money off it... [this is a dumbed down version of fair use, below is the actual rules of "Fair Use"]

 

for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

 

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

 

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

 

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

 

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

 

Making money off it (whether you actually make profit doesn't matter) opens you up into a WHOLE nother realm of stuff...in particular a little thing called Royalties.

 

And as for Kansas's question....Technically what you would be wanting to do would...if the symbol was trademarked...require some sort of attribution.

 

Again the kicker is...are you making money off it.

 

Basically the best way to avoid this legal junk is to create an original logo (I know.....so easy.)

 

But of course my issue with that is, that in spelling out our fourm name, we are using something that is trademarked!

 

::the journalist/graphic designer chimes in::

[Captain Huff 0]

Welp... I think there're possibilities here. Though we can't really spell out the forum name or use Trek images on something sold, "stsf.net" in a Trek-like font with something flying through space would spell "science fiction space nerd, probably Star Trek" clearly enough. Black t-shirt, bold light blue letters (you know, the one we all pick for web page fonts, lol), with planets and stars and junk... Black mugs with stars and stsf.net on 'em, dog collars, t-shirts... Could be good.

[STSF_BluRox 0]

That, or just one big pink donut?

 

Or the piece?

[LoAmi 0]

The difficulty is that non-commercial/attribution is not sufficient for fair-use -- for copyrights or trademarks, which both have different sets of fair use guidelines. For trademarks, in particular, companies worry about maintaining their "good name" and unlicensed overuse, both requirements to maintain the monopoly. For copyrights, what constitutes fair use is not very well spelled out in law. Judges are supposed to weigh those four possible fair-use defenses:

 

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

 

In any given case, any one is not likely to win. Most of these cases don't even make it to court. Big corp comes in with big money lawyers and big money threats, and usually the alleged non-commercial infringer caves. It happened to a lot of Star Trek and LOTR fan-sites.

 

For commercial stuff, the only way is to have something original that's unlikely to be claimed as a derivative work of the copyrighted entity.

[Duroz 0]

Why don't we just write Paramount Pictures and ask them....LOL

 

Just kidding, I seriously doubt they'd have time to even read it. But it's always worth a shot.

[Atragon9 0]

Why don't we just write Paramount Pictures and ask them....LOL

 

Just kidding, I seriously doubt they'd have time to even read it. But it's always worth a shot.

It's been done - Well, Paramount Digital Entertainment was contacted, anyway. They don't want to get involved in anything that would "sell" items for us that contain any of Paramout's artwork or Intellectual Property. They won't come right out and refuse us, but we don't want to tick them off, either. That's why we have no store.

 

[JesusTrekkie 0]

Huzzah... went on vacation and thought up some shirt ideas! Please, don't hate me because I am lame...

 

---

Front

 

Reality is overrated.

 

Back

 

stsf.net

---

 

Front

 

I wanted to play a half-Ferengi, half-Cardassian, half-Vulcan character, but my GM said "No."

 

Back

 

stsf.net

---

 

Another idea would be to have the stsf.net on the front and a top ten signs you're addicted to simming on the back, but I can't find the top ten list I know I've seen here on stsf.net before that I really really liked... sigh.

 

Alright, now you can all begin making fun of the *two* ideas I finally came up with while sitting at a very dirty pic nic table in the middle of nowhere looking at a rather large lake.

[Kansas_Jones 0]

Huzzah... went on vacation and thought up some shirt ideas! Please, don't hate me because I am lame...

 

---

Front

 

Reality is overrated.

 

Back

 

stsf.net

---

 

Front

 

I wanted to play a half-Ferengi, half-Cardassian, half-Vulcan character, but my GM said "No."

 

Back

 

stsf.net

---

 

Another idea would be to have the stsf.net on the front and a top ten signs you're addicted to simming on the back, but I can't find the top ten list I know I've seen here on stsf.net before that I really really liked... sigh.

 

Alright, now you can all begin making fun of the *two* ideas I finally came up with while sitting at a very dirty pic nic table in the middle of nowhere looking at a rather large lake.

LOL ! I like them both! Good stuff. ^_^

[TerrasJadeonar 0]

LOL! The reality one would be cool, but the 'half & half & half' one is just hilarious! I can't even begin to imagine what that would even resemble ^_^ Made me laugh anyways :P

 

As for shirts with st logos and such... years ago our local ST club made shirts and we made a similar ST emblem for the front, and our group name on the back which read something as: (shirt's in closet, too lazy to dig it out)

 

The Undiscovered Province Society

NCC-1990 Legend

"Bridging the Gap"

some other stuff yada yada yada

 

The front was a TOS style solid deep yellow/gold emblem, with a thick green ring just outside it, and then the shaded deep yellow / gold wreath beneath it, or whatever its called... The shirt itself was high quality material, black for the main body and then colored under-cuffs for the neck & short sleeved arms - which we got in 4 cuff colors - red, yellow, green, and blue.

 

Only thing startrek copywrited was that main design emblem itself...

 

But of course, when they got the the shirts done, they were pre-ordered for the members of the club only - which we did wear for club events, meetings, and public st conventions and such. The shirts were very pricey, excellent looking, but I dunno what remains of the club today if there still even is one. I still talk to some friends who i've made from my time with the club.

[knlwtchr 0]

I would love to have a simple T-Shirt like JesusTrekkie has described. Love the ideas, BTW. Whats wrong with just simple words and the web site on the back?

 

::shrug::

 

I know. Too many lawyers in this country.

 

Well, I'M going to look into it in my own town and see what I can conjure up. Ill write this string again when I've got my shirt...er I mean, when I have some answers. =0]

[Chell Reno 0]

Are we allowed to make our own T-shirts? Like take a shirt to a embroidment store and have them stick STSF.net/phrase on a shirt and wear it around?

[Atragon9 0]

Are we allowed to make our own T-shirts? Like take a shirt to a embroidment store and have them stick STSF.net/phrase on a shirt and wear it around?

Anyone can make any shirt they want. We just can't have any "officially sanctioned" shirts as they will reference Star Trek and we don't have rights to merchandise anything that might take money out of Paramount's pocket.

 

I have a couple of STSF shirts that I made just for me (I like cafepress.com for stuff like that), they just aren't available for sale to anyone else.