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Cougar

The Fate of ENT....... IMPORTANT, all must read!

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Efforts to get Paramount to reconsider is happening....

 

But how can Paramount turn down 63 million?

More about the 63 million will be posted on TFU later. But really the 3 million, plus what Al Vinci( Canadian Producer in talks) was offering 15 million. That makes 18 million, then there's something about other media sources willing to pay about 30-40 million...

 

I heard it's about 63 million, though not quite sure on the exact number.

So remember, there's still hope... just that the fan contribution has ended.

 

Also, tonight at TU is a chat with the staff at 8pm Eastern time. There's Q&A chats with the staff on every tuesday <_<

 

So stay tuned for more updates :D

I need to correct myself a bit:

 

Here is a bit from the Staff chat that is currently going on. This quote is about the 63 million.

 

Jim_Gamma: Someone bandied about the figure $63mil in Sunday's chat; are you then telling us they were wrong, and the most we ever pitched was $18mil?

TimBrazeal> Since this is out I gues.. here is the total amounts that we had to bring to the table.. We had 3 million from TU.. our plans win or loose was to give fan money back from the start.. we also had 25 million  from the two Canadian companies and another 35 million from another country... this company that was putting up the 35 million is an 13 billion dollar a year company.. 

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Hey there,

 

Someone mentioned Stargate: SG-1. While I have been a die hard fan of the show, I have some very serious concerns about next season. While I am pleased to see an outstanding actor joining as a new male lead (same one from Farscape), Richard Dean Anderson really did act as the glue of the show. Season 8 will feature very little of him. In fact, I've heard a number of something like three episodes. There's a new individual becoming head of the SGC and it seems Hammond has fallen off the face of the planet next year.

 

I'm really concerned that SG-1 has...well...is starting to grasp at straws for the sake of remaining on TV. Stargate: Atlantis, whose second season I will regretfully miss most of, started off really slow. However, writing for the last half of the season really got me very interested. I think that would be the proper avenue for the show...but that's another discussion for another time. <_<

 

The reason Star Trek: Enterprise never had a chance of getting on Sci-Fi is the cost. Battlestar Galactica costs about one million dollars per episode to create. That figure almost caused Sci-Fi to back away from the project. For half a year there was serious concern they would not renew it because of the price tag. In turn, I heard a figure of something like one million people watch weekly.

 

On the other hand, Captain Archer was costing about one point five million per episode. Given the worst ratings projections I've heard, the average viewership was somewhere near two point five to three point five million. Yet, for some reason, it was considered a failure. I think a large part of this has to do with an interview that appeared on Sci-Fi Wire today, where Bakula talked about how some executives at Paramount may have decided during season two to cancel after four seasons. This, mixed with recent changes in leadership at Paramount, has caused all of the people in charge who cared about the show to leave.

 

In any event, the Sci-Fi Channel is presently producing three original and expensive original programs. To add a fourth would have been...a problem. Look at what happened to Farscape. Personally, I think if Stargate SG-1 had ended after Season 7 as a regular show...might have been a small chance. They just don't have the money to invest and likely don't think a move to cable would keep all of the viewers.

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Hey there,

 

Someone mentioned Stargate: SG-1. While I have been a die hard fan of the show, I have some very serious concerns about next season. While I am pleased to see an outstanding actor joining as a new male lead (same one from Farscape), Richard Dean Anderson really did act as the glue of the show. Season 8 will feature very little of him. In fact, I've heard a number of something like three episodes. There's a new individual becoming head of the SGC and it seems Hammond has fallen off the face of the planet next year.

 

I'm really concerned that SG-1 has...well...is starting to grasp at straws for the sake of remaining on TV. Stargate: Atlantis, whose second season I will regretfully miss most of, started off really slow. However, writing for the last half of the season really got me very interested. I think that would be the proper avenue for the show...but that's another discussion for another time. <_<

 

The reason Star Trek: Enterprise never had a chance of getting on Sci-Fi is the cost. Battlestar Galactica costs about one million dollars per episode to create. That figure almost caused Sci-Fi to back away from the project. For half a year there was serious concern they would not renew it because of the price tag. In turn, I heard a figure of something like one million people watch weekly.

 

On the other hand, Captain Archer was costing about one point five million per episode. Given the worst ratings projections I've heard, the average viewership was somewhere near two point five to three point five million. Yet, for some reason, it was considered a failure. I think a large part of this has to do with an interview that appeared on Sci-Fi Wire today, where Bakula talked about how some executives at Paramount may have decided during season two to cancel after four seasons. This, mixed with recent changes in leadership at Paramount, has caused all of the people in charge who cared about the show to leave.

 

In any event, the Sci-Fi Channel is presently producing three original and expensive original programs. To add a fourth would have been...a problem. Look at what happened to Farscape. Personally, I think if Stargate SG-1 had ended after Season 7 as a regular show...might have been a small chance. They just don't have the money to invest and likely don't think a move to cable would keep all of the viewers.

It's a shame that we can't have accurate ratings....

 

Nielson's is so flawed.

 

Btw, Nielson's reported that for this season of Television, they're ratings for people recieving shows on Digital Cable weren't accurate. Now if UPN was smart, they would take in the possibility that the ENT ratings along with other shows are innaccurate.

 

Television relies on ratings, but Nielson's is outdated and obsolete. You can never know the true amount of viewers...

 

Also to put in account, Canada and other countries also watch ENT, but it seems Corporate Execs only care for the American viewers.

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True, but are the ratings calculation flaws worse for Enterprise than other shows? Wouldn't the formulas they use skew all non-cable shows equally?

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True, but are the ratings calculation flaws worse for Enterprise than other shows? Wouldn't the formulas they use skew all non-cable shows equally?

Possibly, not sure. But either way the ratings for ENT aren't accurate. That probably goes for most shows out there.

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It's a shame that we can't have accurate ratings....

 

Nielson's is so flawed.

 

Btw, Nielson's reported that for this season of Television, they're ratings for people recieving shows on Digital Cable weren't accurate. Now if UPN was smart, they would take in the possibility that the ENT ratings along with other shows are innaccurate.

 

Television relies on ratings, but Nielson's is outdated and obsolete. You can never know the true amount of viewers...

 

Also to put in account, Canada and other countries also watch ENT, but it seems Corporate Execs only care for the American viewers.

As someone who works in the mass-media and is a practioner of Mass Media Principals, I disagree that Neilson is "flawed" and "inaccurate."

 

Neilson is what is called a repesentive sample. Your right there is no way to know what everyone is watching all the time. However you can do a sample and make an estimate as to how it relates to the rest of your "public."

 

Neilson works like this in theory: Out of X# of Viewers sampled (to be called a repesentive sample you must me certain qualifications but the most important is numbers) Y% watched ShowA.

 

This is how almost every poll is conducted, Neilson just goes about it a different way by using the boxes instead of calling up 5000 people to ask them what they are watching :ph34r:

 

So in prinicpal there is nothing wrong with Neilson <_<

 

 

Anyway. I think I've already put my thoughts down on this matter, but I suppose I can do it again for the sake of making this post somewhat on topic.

 

Paramount shouldn't be faulted for canceling the show, in their minds it was the correct business decsion.

 

Second, all of these people who are complaining about "well what if we give them money, then they won't have an excuse not to bring the show back next season."

The problem with that it is ignoring a very important point and is very...short sighted.

 

Paramount probabbly has the money to shell out for another season, but what about the season after that, and the season after that? Are ENT fans going to continue to help subsidize the show? I doubt it. In other words it would only be prolonging the enevitable.

 

And from a business point of view, I don't think it's all that bad of move, cutting a show that had emager ratings, because now the nostalgic ENT fans will eat up the DVD's when they bring them out in a few years. :D

 

As I have said, I think it's great that ENT fans are taking a populist approach and getting involved, but I think it's past the point where anything can be done.

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As someone who works in the mass-media and is a practioner of Mass Media Principals, I disagree that Neilson is "flawed" and "inaccurate."

....

 

This is how almost every poll is conducted, Neilson just goes about it a different way by using the boxes instead of calling up 5000 people to ask them what they are watching :D

 

So in prinicpal there is nothing wrong with Neilson <_<

Hey there,

 

Your right that there normally isn't. However, according to Neilson, a mechanical and/or computer malfunction in either data collection or output resulted in any "box" connected to a television classifed as digital cable not being recorded. Does this impact many ratings? Sure does. Does it impact some stations more than others? Again, yes. Issue is that in some areas, UPN is only available on digital cable given the home station's distance from a particular market.

 

In their defense however, the company has said they are correcting the fault. Issue is, revised numbers for this season won't be available until the start of the next one. It was also shortly after this error was discovered that ratings showed Enterprise as being the highest rated show on UPN for a week or two. Go figure.

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And from a business point of view, I don't think it's all that bad of move, cutting a show that had emager ratings, because now the nostalgic ENT fans will eat up the DVD's when they bring them out in a few years. <_<.

actually, season 1 is supposedly coming out 5 days, so I don't think it's really nostalgic if the show didn't even wrap yet.

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Hey there,

 

Your right that there normally isn't. However, according to Neilson, a mechanical and/or computer malfunction in either data collection or output resulted in any "box" connected to a television classifed as digital cable not being recorded. Does this impact many ratings? Sure does. Does it impact some stations more than others? Again, yes. Issue is that in some areas, UPN is only available on digital cable given the home station's distance from a particular market.

 

In their defense however, the company has said they are correcting the fault. Issue is, revised numbers for this season won't be available until the start of the next one. It was also shortly after this error was discovered that ratings showed Enterprise as being the highest rated show on UPN for a week or two. Go figure.

I was refering the theory behind Neilson in generality not this year in particular <_<

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I am so happy STSF isn't like Startrek.com, literally they purely Hate TU, go to the ENT board there and you'll see. Hlaf of them Hate TU and ENT, half of them just hate TU.

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I am so happy STSF isn't like Startrek.com, literally they purely Hate TU, go to the ENT board there and you'll see. Hlaf of them Hate TU and ENT, half of them just hate TU.

Yeah, I haven't gone to the Enterprise board almost all season; they are so negative over there.

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Yeah, I haven't gone to the Enterprise board almost all season; they are so negative over there.

Right now I'm being bashed for supporting TU, now I want to end the 8 people yelling at me peacefully but they don't seem to agree.

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I am so happy STSF isn't like Startrek.com, literally they purely Hate TU, go to the ENT board there and you'll see. Hlaf of them Hate TU and ENT, half of them just hate TU.

I am shocked at the level of ENT bashing over there at Startrek.com; not just directed at TU, but at the show, fans that may like the show, each episode that is aired every week, what the show did wrong now, etc. It is total bedlam over there with regard to the ENT section. No good discussion topics that I have seen lately regarding ENT.

 

I totally understand that some people are going to like ENT, and some aren't, thats natural. But I get the feeling that the peeps who post the ENT bashing topics or go into a ENT topic and say something derogatory, are Professional On-Line Bashers, and go around to all the popular pop culture / sci fi forums and just bash, no matter what the show or subject.

 

Startrek.com is probably a convenient target in itself for these professionals. I recall a random posting called "Why Star Trek Stinks" or something like that. Now really - someone posts that on *the* main Star Trek forum? Hello Vanna, I'd like to buy a clue.

 

I hope I am NEVer that bored that I need to resort to being a Professional Basher. How low can you get?

 

- Kansas

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Sadly, there are bashers everywhere. I think some bash just because they can. It's amazing how un-Trek-fannish they act. We all behold Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future as one of the best things of our lives, and yet, it seems no one wants to adapt tolerance and acceptance to his/her own life. <_<

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I was refering the theory behind Neilson in generality not this year in particular <_<

The theory and the actual practice are very closely related. The problem is that the results are only as good as the data that goes in. In order to be "representative," a sample has to be random. A nonrandom sample may have subtle (or not so subtle) biases. For example, digital cable watchers or watchers with TiVo's and DVR's may watch TV very differently from those who don't have that technology. (If they don't, then, afaik, ignoring them won't matter) If that's true, the sampling has a very different meaning from what is being suggested.

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::the other TV guy speaks out..again::

 

I suggested Sci Fi initially in conjuction with the additional sources of capital...I know Sci Fi is maxed out...but I think long term it would have been a better investment...SG-1 will probably end up like MJ's return to Pro Basketball...just sad.

 

As for Nielsen..it is imperfect..but it is the best we have..and I have to sell those numbers daily..of course ..figures Lie and Liars figure...it all depends on what numbers you had the previous night :blink:

 

Then theres the problem of some major markets no even HAVING a UPN affiliate...or simulcasting UPN programming after prime...people having to stay up to midnight to watch...

 

THEN...theres just the complete genre mismatch with a primarily Urban Network...Am I profiling...you bet....the demographics are what they are...

 

So...It would seem Trek is dead... and maybe thats not a bad thing..because Gene was all about a unified future...with shared values and beliefs...and from what Ive seen on other sights..TREK fans are ANYTHING but unified right now...I feel bad for the cast..they arent even getting a decent finale....they have to deal with MR and MRS NUMBER 1 :ph34r: Would that suck? Thanks for your time fellas..now lets focus on some characters from another TREK series... <_<

 

I could go on..but you dont care and Im tired... :D

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The theory and the actual practice are very closely related. The problem is that the results are only as good as the data that goes in. In order to be "representative," a sample has to be random. A nonrandom sample may have subtle (or not so subtle) biases. For example, digital cable watchers or watchers with TiVo's and DVR's may watch TV very differently from those who don't have that technology. (If they don't, then, afaik, ignoring them won't matter) If that's true, the sampling has a very different meaning from what is being suggested.

Which may or may not be the case...I am not up on the latest figures from Neilson or how DVD-R (tiVo) /Digital Cable people watch TV as my focus is not broadcast media.

 

I am just saying, that the theory behind the system is perfectly fine (so long as they are using a random sample) and as such it wouldn't be 'outdated' because that's how you do polling.

 

Obviously there is no way to get a completely accurate reading, but you can do sampling and make an...and I hate this word...assumpiton based on those samples as to what everyone else does.

 

So yes, assuming that DVD-R (tiVo) /Digital Cable people watch TV differently, it would skew the ratings, but if not then there is nothing wrong with excluding them on accident...

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I totally understand that some people are going to like ENT, and some aren't, thats natural. But I get the feeling that the peeps who post the ENT bashing topics or go into a ENT topic and say something derogatory, are Professional On-Line Bashers, and go around to all the popular pop culture / sci fi forums and just bash, no matter what the show or subject.

I just had to chime in for this comment... ya wanna know what they call professional online bashers??? Bloggers... I know, I know, off the topic, but I just had to say. :D

 

<~~~~ The one who is still reamining mum on the topic of Enterprise's cancellation <_<

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I am shocked at the level of ENT bashing over there at Startrek.com; not just directed at TU, but at the show, fans that may like the show, each episode that is aired every week, what the show did wrong now, etc. It is total bedlam over there with regard to the ENT section. No good discussion topics that I have seen lately regarding ENT.

 

I totally understand that some people are going to like ENT, and some aren't, thats natural. But I get the feeling that the peeps who post the ENT bashing topics or go into a ENT topic and say something derogatory, are Professional On-Line Bashers, and go around to all the popular pop culture / sci fi forums and just bash, no matter what the show or subject.

 

Startrek.com is probably a convenient target in itself for these professionals. I recall a random posting called "Why Star Trek Stinks" or something like that. Now really - someone posts that on *the* main Star Trek forum? Hello Vanna, I'd like to buy a clue.

 

I hope I am NEVer that bored that I need to resort to being a Professional Basher. How low can you get?

 

- Kansas

I don't mine bashing with polite critisizm, it's easier to answer to that than the remarks at st.com. The level of posting in quality is terrible. I've seen whole topics named "ENT sucks", then they barely give good reasons. Most people there and other places like to bash agressively, that's why it's called bashing. Now the "We won, we beat TU" topic(s) ###### me off, they haven't won, TU is still here.

Infact some judge the show before watching it all, Season 4 has been the best, however some have only watched up to season 2 and continue to bash it no matter what. Some like to watch every episode, and nitpick at every little thing. Now anyone can do this, for any series, it would be pretty annoying if someone came around and started nitpicking every little thing on every TNG episode.

 

Now Al Vinci is trying to get Paramount to reconsider their decision.

Whether ENT continues or not, Trek will be back. But considering the execs at Paramount/Viacom( Les Moonves <_< ), another series may not return for another 5-10 years. Sure we have a movie coming out in like 1-2 years, but as I've heard, it'll be based on the romulan wars with an all new crew. Not many like the "alll new crew" idea.

ENT is actually doing well this year, Season 4 has been the best IMO, and UPN goes cancelling it when it's at it's best yet.

 

I am loooking forward to Tonight's(friday) episode, it may be the best of the season or series.

But you have to admit, Coto has kept Season 4 alive.

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Hey there,

 

I do agree...actually seeing a pre-refit Constitution Class starship? To see a completely rebuilt TOS bridge set in use? <_<

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One thing is certain about the Trek United campaign: it has been every bit as divisive as Enterprise has been since the concept was first announced.  Both incidents have revealed a nasty dark alley of Trek fandom that it has tried to keep quiet for decades but can't ever distance itself from; the fact that a group of people who profess to aspire to the lofty goals of Gene Roddenberry's "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" can be some of the most vicious, bigoted and closed-minded people on this or any other planet when it comes to people who don't think exactly the same way they do.  These are the "fans" that I witnessed not only booing Space: 1999 fans off a stage during a convention costume competition back in 1976 but actually threatening them with physical violence for even daring to show up those costumes. 

 

From today's Trek Report on IGN. This is the part of the whole thing that really bothers me.

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This is the part of the whole thing that really bothers me.

I have to agree, especially after I read that article.

 

I don't think the problems with Star Trek have to do as much with writers and the shows themselves, but more with the squabbling and fighting amongst fans.

 

That really concerns me, because I want to see new shows and movies produced. I feel like I am late to the game when it comes to Star Trek (I only really got into it the last few years), and I'd hate for it all to be over before I really had a chance to enjoy it.

 

I realize there is always going to be criticism, no matter what they come up with. But it seems like it's reached a whole new level recently, at least, from what I've seen on some of the message boards.

 

I don't watch Enterprise, but that doesn't mean that I want to bash it. It's just a different flavor of ST, in my opinion. Just because I don't particularly like it doesn't make it any less part of the Star Trek franchise.

 

I wouldn't mind trying to watch it again someday, but does anyone know if it will be syndicated? I won't buy the DVDs until I know that I will be able to get into the show.

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I have to agree, especially after I read that article.

 

I don't think the problems with Star Trek have to do as much with writers and the shows themselves, but more with the squabbling and fighting amongst fans.

 

That really concerns me, because I want to see new shows and movies produced. I feel like I am late to the game when it comes to Star Trek (I only really got into it the last few years), and I'd hate for it all to be over before I really had a chance to enjoy it.

 

I realize there is always going to be criticism, no matter what they come up with. But it seems like it's reached a whole new level recently, at least, from what I've seen on some of the message boards.

 

I don't watch Enterprise, but that doesn't mean that I want to bash it. It's just a different flavor of ST, in my opinion. Just because I don't particularly like it doesn't make it any less part of the Star Trek franchise.

 

I wouldn't mind trying to watch it again someday, but does anyone know if it will be syndicated? I won't buy the DVDs until I know that I will be able to get into the show.

Enterprise has been syndicated and, for what is supposedly such a horrible show, will be shown in almost the entire country. TV stations snapped it up very quickly. I suspect that it is going to go the same way as TOS: poor ratings during its run, gains the masses in syndication.

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how bout we just enjoy the last few episodes and hope somthing good comes out of this?

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