Whats beyond those GM walls?

[Nemesis 0]

Many people have been asking many questions as of late and they all seem to be getting the same answer a what can be viewed as condensing "We're working on it". Prehaps the GMs should keep the simmers informed of what is going on because it is unfair to seasoned Simmers and fresh cadets to be left in the dark as they are. Prehaps start a forum, "GM plans".

 

This should change because attitudes like this can turn away people who could turn out to be great simmers. I must be honest many of things you say we're working on and be patient with have been asked before and I myself have been here for almost a year and hardly anything has changed other then the adding of the Excalibur (Which is a great addition a ship I myself sim on) and the "featured simmer page" which may be a great addition to the forum has no real impact on simming.

 

Again I am only asking that you allow the simmers to know whats going on so that they have more imput so this becomes more of a community and better for all simmers. Remember the GMs do not represent the views of all members but that of the GMs. I hope you give my views some thought.

[Feanor 0]

Many people have been asking many questions as of late and they all seem to be getting the same answer a what can be viewed as condensing "We're working on it". Prehaps the GMs should keep the simmers informed of what is going on because it is unfair to seasoned Simmers and fresh cadets to be left in the dark as they are. Prehaps start a forum, "GM plans".

 

This should change because attitudes like this can turn away people who could turn out to be great simmers. I must be honest many of things you say we're working on and be patient with have been asked before and I myself have been here for almost a year and hardly anything has changed other then the adding of the Excalibur (Which is a great addition a ship I myself sim on) and the "featured simmer page" which may be a great addition to the forum has no real impact on simming.

 

Again I am only asking that you allow the simmers to know whats going on so that they have more imput so this becomes more of a community and better for all simmers. Remember the GMs do not represent the views of all members but that of the GMs. I hope you give my views some thought.

:j

 

Just thought I'd get a nod of approval in before the topic gets locked or dissapears.

[Grom 0]

Many people have been asking many questions as of late and they all seem to be getting the same answer a what can be viewed as condensing "We're working on it". Prehaps the GMs should keep the simmers informed of what is going on because it is unfair to seasoned Simmers and fresh cadets to be left in the dark as they are. Prehaps start a forum, "GM plans".

 

This should change because attitudes like this can turn away people who could turn out to be great simmers. I must be honest many of things you say we're working on and be patient with have been asked before and I myself have been here for almost a year and hardly anything has changed other then the adding of the Excalibur (Which is a great addition a ship I myself sim on) and the "featured simmer page" which may be a great addition to the forum has no real impact on simming.

 

Again I am only asking that you allow the simmers to know whats going on so that they have more imput so this becomes more of a community and better for all simmers. Remember the GMs do not represent the views of all members but that of the GMs. I hope you give my views some thought.

In response to your post:

 

I think there's a misconception here that GMs sit around all day plotting while maliciously keeping everyone in the dark. This may be a practice in our STSF Academies, but it's certainly not the practice of the GM staff. I think STSF does a wonderful job of keeping simmers informed. No, not everything is going to be revealed, but when Fred says, for example, that he can guarantee that a new advanced simulation will be launched at some point, or more academies will be launched, you can take that guarantee to the bank.

 

Simmers are always welcome to submit ideas. Many of them have been implemented. Remember the FAQ page? That was initiated by one of the members here. No, the system we have in place is not democratic, but it's like that for a reason. It's been like this long before I started, and will be like this long after I retire.

 

 

I think what's really bothering some people is the fact that the status quo, or minor improvements isn't good enough. What's wrong with being stable for awhile? We've got this idea in our head that if we don't see any visible "progress," things are some how wrong. You have to remember that every big project takes a lot of little projects.

 

The fact that we have added 4-5 advanced simulations in less than two years is amazing. The fact that we have added 4-5 academies is amazing. We launched a new chat interface this year, remember. We established a "Featured Simmer/GM/Simulation" page so that we might honor individuals committment to STSF and its vision. Contrary to what you think you know, I know for a fact the FS page has been very sucessful in attacting new players to that particular sim. Those are some of the BIG things. The little things? I can't even begin to list them all.

 

Patience, I think is the word for the week. We are working hard for your benefit. Even I don't know every little plan for STSF, as a GM, but I can tell you, the members are so "in the dark" as you might think.

 

::tosses some cents::

[Nemesis 0]

Grom again who would it hurt just to place a log every week or month of some of the ideas that have been pitched in the council. The fact is I've seen that "We have been discussing it" or "We're looking into it" so much and in a way that appears to be condensing like the person is stupid for asking a question about that, and that he should've know you were looking into it. I personally would like to know what the GMs are planning about for it impacts me as a simmer.

 

This is not democratic you say and for reason, well what are those reasons exactly?

[Grom 0]

Grom again who would it hurt just to place a log every week or month of some of the ideas that have been pitched in the council. The fact is I've seen that "We have been discussing it" or "We're looking into it" so much and in a way that appears to be condensing like the person is stupid for asking a question about that, and that he should've know you were looking into it. I personally would like to know what the GMs are planning about for it impacts me as a simmer.

 

This is not democratic you say and for reason, well what are those reasons exactly?

I will let one of the Council members answer your question regarding Council activities.

[Vex Xiang 0]

Well said, Gromvik.

[Holden 0]

::clenches teeth::

uh-oh...here goes Nem, getting all supportive...:( :)

[Captain Huff 0]

The fact is I've seen that "We have been discussing it" or "We're looking into it" so much and in a way that appears to be condensing like the person is stupid for asking a question about that, and that he should've know you were looking into it. I personally would like to know what the GMs are planning about for it impacts me as a simmer.

I think you mean, "condescending," right? I would never presume to condense you! :)

 

All questions and comments are heard. We all read the boards regularly.

 

And if I keep typing, I will only be echoing what Grom has already said. We agree that expansion is great as we get the staff and player personnel to fill the roles, and both are growing at a very acceptable rate. It simply may not be as fast as someone who wants a particular new timeslot or format is happy to wait for. In the meantime, if there's nothing new to announce, there's nothing new to announce. And we do have in place a great forum of academies and advanced ships running smoothly. (Out of character speaking, of course!)

[bigmancheatle 0]

Again I'm new here, but why can't we have some democratic aspects applied?

i.e. taking a vote through the members on maybe small things, but leave the BIG things like starting new sims to the council. Its just a suggestion and I do agree with nem on that we should maybe have a page entitled "GM plans" it could help bring in new members i for one like to be able to look at all the suggestions made by you all and what you have talked about. Maybe you could post an agenda about whats going on and whats happening its better to hear it from something public instead of hear-say.

 

Thank you

Cheatle

[Feanor 0]

In response to your post:

 

I think there's a misconception here that GMs sit around all day plotting while maliciously keeping everyone in the dark. This may be a practice in our STSF Academies, but it's certainly not the practice of the GM staff. I think STSF does a wonderful job of keeping simmers informed. No, not everything is going to be revealed, but when Fred says, for example, that he can guarantee that a new advanced simulation will be launched at some point, or more academies will be launched, you can take that guarantee to the bank.

 

Simmers are always welcome to submit ideas. Many of them have been implemented. Remember the FAQ page? That was initiated by one of the members here. No, the system we have in place is not democratic, but it's like that for a reason. It's been like this long before I started, and will be like this long after I retire.

 

 

I think what's really bothering some people is the fact that the status quo, or minor improvements isn't good enough. What's wrong with being stable for awhile? We've got this idea in our head that if we don't see any visible "progress," things are some how wrong. You have to remember that every big project takes a lot of little projects.

 

The fact that we have added 4-5 advanced simulations in less than two years is amazing. The fact that we have added 4-5 academies is amazing. We launched a new chat interface this year, remember. We established a "Featured Simmer/GM/Simulation" page so that we might honor individuals committment to STSF and its vision. Contrary to what you think you know, I know for a fact the FS page has been very sucessful in attacting new players to that particular sim. Those are some of the BIG things. The little things? I can't even begin to list them all.

 

Patience, I think is the word for the week. We are working hard for your benefit. Even I don't know every little plan for STSF, as a GM, but I can tell you, the members are so "in the dark" as you might think.

 

::tosses some cents::

I think what Nemesis and perhaps others are really looking for Gromvik, is perhaps a report compiled by our illustrious leaders that might give us all a little insight into what is actually being done, what is being proposed, whats being worked on. All this as opposed to "we're working on it."

 

Nobody has suggested that GM's sit around all day and plot maliciously. I am seeing a desire for a little more openness.

 

As far as the structure of the leadership goes...well theres a reason why companies reorganize from time to time. But once again, thats a whole 'nother can of worms.

 

Theres a simple solution to this request, make the information availiable in a format that can be readily accessed and provide it on a regular basis. Make it a type of quarterly report, all of us that sim here are investing our time in being part of STSF, a little information is not too much to ask, make it a rundown of all the currently active projects or the minutes of the GM' meetings.

 

::Swollows Gromviks two cents::

[Atragon9 0]

Many people have been asking many questions as of late and they all seem to be getting the same answer a what can be viewed as condensing "We're working on it". Prehaps the GMs should keep the simmers informed of what is going on because it is unfair to seasoned Simmers and fresh cadets to be left in the dark as they are. Prehaps start a forum, "GM plans".

 

This should change because attitudes like this can turn away people who could turn out to be great simmers. I must be honest many of things you say we're working on and be patient with have been asked before and I myself have been here for almost a year and hardly anything has changed other then the adding of the Excalibur (Which is a great addition a ship I myself sim on) and the "featured simmer page" which may be a great addition to the forum has no real impact on simming.

 

Again I am only asking that you allow the simmers to know whats going on so that they have more imput so this becomes more of a community and better for all simmers. Remember the GMs do not represent the views of all members but that of the GMs. I hope you give my views some thought.

Well, if you've been here for a year, you've seen the addition of three academies and the Red Star Lounge, the Excalibur, and a completely redesigned web site (and we had just added the Qob-Lakota, the RES Talon and the Republic just before you started, I guess).

 

Our group of simmers/members has been growing steadily and the GM Council and the GMs feel that this is the best way to grow the Forum - Slow and Steady Wins the Race.

 

The structure of the Forum is not a democratic one and, as shocking as that may seem, it's true and everyone knows it. It's like working for a company, in a way. There is a "command structure," yet there is freedom and latitude all throughout the organization within boundaries (you can complain to the boss, but you can't go into his office and set his desk on fire). The direction of the group, as a whole, is decided by those in control of the rudder. We welcome input from anyone and and all opinions are given real consideration.

 

Thank you.

[NDak 0]

Democracy...bah....

 

 

Its not like we are suffering from some brutal dictators here...

 

Anyway. Back to Topic. Its like people (no offense Nem...I don't think this is what you are trying to say) are trying to mkae a big rucus and act like STSF is in some big crisis here--when, I ,at least, don't think we are.

 

So we only have nine sims in stead of nine hundred. Big deal. Do we have all nine of those ships filled and have people on long waiting lists for spots...not that i am aware of...do we have ships that have no crews and can barely run plot lines no.

 

 

Anyway back to topic. I think for the most part we do know what is going on as far development. I think Fred and the others have been very Candid that they are workong on expanding the forum.

 

::throws in his two cents thinking with all the cents being thrown around someone is getting mighty rich::

[Webmaster 20]

I'll toss in my two cents here too for what it's worth...

 

Anytime there is anything of consequence to announce, it's posted for pretty much everyone to see. There are not too many things that are kept in the dark from the players. (Though GMs and the GM council may know about them a few days before the players, that's to be expected, lol.)

 

Sometimes when we say it's being looked at, or we'll take it under consideration... it may not be something that is discussed day in and day out until a decision is made. Sometimes it's things we have on the back burner and hope to address eventually.

 

There are many things here on the website that I eventually would like to see happen. But it's not something that may be able to happen in the near future (ie as in the next few weeks/months). By posting what I think I would like to do, people start getting they're hopes and expectations up. Then if something happens where I can't deliver, it makes me end up looking bad. lol

 

As far as "reports" or whatever... I honestly think it's kind of counter productive. Any kind of announcement that is needed to be made is posted in our forums in the appropriate area. That way if something happens, we can communicate it quickly. Why bother with a report if the info is already there. Personally I don't see a need for "minutes" of the GM meetings needing to be posted such as "we've recieved 3 applicants for GM positions, had XXXX number of visitors to the website, want to look at organizing chat logs in a different way, etc".

 

Those are things that honestly have absolutely no impact on players or effect how they play. If someone has a question regarding site traffic, my e-mail and private messages have ALWAYS been open. Plans and such about wanting to change this or that are communicated already on the forums... and things such as reviewing GM applicants of course has no reason to be in the public.

 

Each person involved in the "management" of STSF is available to answer questions and such if you have a question. It's just there are times when a question is asked (such as when will we add more sims) that can't be answered right away. It's something that takes a while to properly look at, and sometimes the answer requires a lot more work to be done to get to it. But I don't think it's necessarily important to share each itty bitty step it takes to get there. lol

 

In closing... if you feel we have not been open/forthcomming/honest with you, I'm sorry. Each of us try our best to keep the forum in the know about what's going on, what changes are happening, why those changes are necessary, etc. If there is anything specifically you are interested about, please private message me. I'd be happy to talk with you a bit more and explain anything.

[NDak 0]

::claps::

 

 

What they said...

[Nemesis 0]

Just to reinterate, I do not think that STSF is in any crisis. I actually think it's at a high point, though talking to other people newer cadets and even older simmers they've noticed the same things I did so I thought I would be fair and post about it.

 

Now instead of the "We're working on it" could the GMs be a little more considerate and say something like "We'll consider it, thank you for the idea". I think it would just be more friendlier now and more helpful.

 

(Where's the Spell checker I think I'm getting dylexia)

Edited May 4, 2004 by NEMESIS

[Vex Xiang 0]

Well I guess I'll throw in my cents also.

 

I think the majority of the community really doesn't care what goes on behind the scenes. I sure could care less :) So long as my sim is still running and these boards are up so I can chat, I'll stay a member of this forum. Otherwise I'll go join some other group. It doesn't matter...but being involved in the every-day workings of the groups is just going to stress everyone out. Its unecessary to have fun and really enjoy yourself.

 

For that matter, if you're really interested in helping out the community behind-the-scenes, sign up to be a GM. I think most of the folks in STSF would make a great GM...it doesn't take much, just dedication and experience. Then you can attend the GM meetings and be involved in the operations of the forum.

 

Other than that...I'm just here to have fun. Don't get me wrong, being a GM is fun, too :(, but again I think most folks just want to sim once (or twice or thrice) a week and not worry about having a say in running the forum.

 

Sure its always interesting when we don't know something...it gets our curiosity. But if you really think as to what benefit knowing any of the junk that the GMs know, you'll wonder why you bothered. Its like seeing a box on the sidewalk. You just wonder whats inside!

 

Unfortunately, it's just junk. So don't worry about it so much :D

[FredM 0]

Unfortunately, it's just junk. So don't worry about it so much :(

Hey there,

 

Yes...this is true...::has a memory of the memo regarding the Coconut Bra:: Yup, just junk... :)

[bigmancheatle 0]

Well I guess I'll throw in my cents also.

 

I think the majority of the community really doesn't care what goes on behind the scenes. I sure could care less :) So long as my sim is still running and these boards are up so I can chat, I'll stay a member of this forum. Otherwise I'll go join some other group. It doesn't matter...but being involved in the every-day workings of the groups is just going to stress everyone out. Its unecessary to have fun and really enjoy yourself.

 

For that matter, if you're really interested in helping out the community behind-the-scenes, sign up to be a GM. I think most of the folks in STSF would make a great GM...it doesn't take much, just dedication and experience. Then you can attend the GM meetings and be involved in the operations of the forum.

 

Other than that...I'm just here to have fun. Don't get me wrong, being a GM is fun, too :(, but again I think most folks just want to sim once (or twice or thrice) a week and not worry about having a say in running the forum.

 

Sure its always interesting when we don't know something...it gets our curiosity. But if you really think as to what benefit knowing any of the junk that the GMs know, you'll wonder why you bothered. Its like seeing a box on the sidewalk. You just wonder whats inside!

 

Unfortunately, it's just junk. So don't worry about it so much :D

Yep Yep I think I should have took this aproach

 

 

::takes his 2 cents back::

[Cptn Moose 0]

Hey there,

 

Yes...this is true...::has a memory of the memo regarding the Coconut Bra:: Yup, just junk... :)

When all else fails ... pull out the man in drag.

 

God bless Milton Berle.

[Saek tr'Vosh 0]

I'm just here to have fun. Don't get me wrong, being a GM is fun, too :), but again I think most folks just want to sim once (or twice or thrice) a week and not worry about having a say in running the forum.

 

::collecting all the cents thrown in:: hehehe....Hey..ive got 3 kids :)

 

This is an excellent point. I have missed only a few academies in my time here. However, my wife and I have had recent discussions about the time I have been spending online. Not in porn rooms, Dak :P ..but here in STSF.

 

I would love to be a GM when I am eligible. As was stated, it just takes commitment and dedication. This is an awesome forum...in my humble opinion...there may be many like it, but this is where I call home(online.) I have made many new friends and possibly some enemies(with a DS9 remark or two) :D

 

Now noone wants to listen to the newguy (or the oldguys for that matter) complain about how things arent done. However, there should be an effective, accessible feedback resolution method..::points to the Employee Suggestion Box:: This box has to be used for it to be effective, though...by both sides. My point being...we all have to work together to continue to keep interest in this forum. If summer is important for recruitment, then may I suggest we get on the same page and ensure that new cadets dont see a lot of internal bickering.

 

OK..I heard you..."what is this new guy trying to prove...coming in here acting like he has a clue?" You are right...I am new, but Im not going anywhere either :D So I will be the newguy...until Im not, I guess. I think the GM's are doing a fine job. Especially, when you consider the old saying, you get what you pay for :P No Tovan...Im not sucking up..Im nowhere near GM eligibility. :( Its kinda like the military...things are done a certain way for the benefit of all. Again, suggestions should always be taken...and perhaps an active thread would help others feel...validated...for lack of a better term.

 

I dont claim to have all the answers. This could be nothing more than "growing pains." As far as the not-knowing-ness, you dont have to fully understand and participate in the operation of a car, to take a nice trip :) That being said, I invite any new members reading this thread, to come to the academies and take a nice trip with the GM's and the rest of us. :D

 

::wonders if he should warn the cadets about GO BOOM actions:: Naaaaaaaa

[bigmancheatle 0]

Now noone wants to listen to the newguy (or the oldguys for that matter) complain about how things arent done. However, there should be an effective, accessible feedback resolution method..::points to the Employee Suggestion Box::

Hey why isn't there a "Member Suggestion Box" It could solve alot of problems and maybe stop a little interinal bickering.

 

 

::Drops suggestion into "Member Suggestion Box" oops forgot I just suggested that::

 

 

Thank you

Cheatle

[Vex Xiang 0]

However, my wife and I have had recent discussions about the time I have been spending online.

 

I bet I know how that went...

 

YOU: What about the time I spend online?

 

WIFE: Oh honey its fine...enjoy your hobby. I dont mind it at all. I love you. Let me go get you a beer while I cook dinner.

 

Am I right? <g>

[Saek tr'Vosh 0]

I bet I know how that went...

 

YOU: What about the time I spend online?

 

WIFE: Oh honey its fine...enjoy your hobby. I dont mind it at all. I love you. Let me go get you a beer while I cook dinner.

 

Am I right? <g>

Now thats just weird.....

 

Word for word.....::looks hard at Vex::

 

Honey? :)

[Captain Huff 0]

Hmm. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. "We're working on it" means... we're working on it... It's not meant to be rude, it's not meant to be condescending. It just means... we're working on it. I think the only extra details we can supply would be, "We've talked about it and decided it's going to take six to eighteen months before we have the personnel to implement it, and we're taking the steps needed to do that." A weekly report would just be stating that same thing over and over, and really the only result I can see to that would be to irritate anyone who wants to see something faster.

 

If you want to see things worded differently, well... we'll work on that! :)

 

(And what's really behind the wall? Donuts, of course!)

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Inventory of what is behind the Great Wall Of GM:

• Doughnuts
  
• A Coconut Bra & Skirt
  
• The "How To Be A Cabana Boy" Manual, Version 2.0
  
• "How To Run A Sim For Dummies" Guide, Recently Rented By A New GM (who will remain nameless for today)
  
• Dac's Intergalactic House Of Shoes
  
• Pandarian House Of Cadets, Open 24 Hours
  
• Budgetary Reports Regarding Recent Decrease In Academy Deaths, Marked URGENT
  
• Petition To Remove The Word "The" From A Website
  
• The Letter Q
  
• Some Box No One Has Opened Since The Forum Was Launched
  
• A Half Empty Box With Patches Titled "Rebel Alliance 2002".