Where Star Trek comes from.

[willingham 0]

I was looking in the textbook of World History, and I saw the legend of Romulus and Remus.

 

According to Roman legend, a king ruled a small city near the Tiber River over 2,700 years ago. His younger brother overthrew him and drove away the rest of the royal family. Later the older brother's daughter gave birth to twin boys, Romulus and Remus. The new king was afraid these boys would try to claim the throne. He gave orders to throw the twins into the flooded Tiber River. This was done--but miraculosly the boys did not drown. They were both washed up on a hilltop where a wolf happened along and rescued them.

 

The story goes on to say that a shepard came upon the wolf's den and took the boys home. Romulus and Remus grew up to be strong and brave. In the end they helped their grandfather become king again. Then Romulus and Remus founded a new city on the hill where they had been rescued. The two brothers fought over the naming of the city, and Romulus killed Remus. The city was named Rome after it's first king, Romulus.

 

© 2001 McGrawHill Inc

 

So that's how Roddenberry got Romulus and Remus.

[Nemesis 0]

Roman mythology is very big in Star Trek, with Vulcan who was the god of metal work believe it or not. The entire Romulan senate is comparable to the Roman senate straight down to a praetor there are so many ties that I don't feel like saying. :)

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Well, if I recall correctly, under Roddenberry's watch the only solid information that even existed about Remus was that it was "one of the two homeworlds" of the Romulan Star Empire. Heck, the only map showing the place was from Balance of Terror up until Nemesis...and that map even had the planet named "Romii."

 

In many respects, it's a shame Roddenberry never got to develop the Romulans as he had desired. For those not aware, they were supposed to be the primary villian of Kirk's day. In english...they were supposed to have most of that screen time the Klingons got. The reason? The 1960's Klingon makeup was a lot cheaper than the Romulan gear. Thus...you can see who one out.

[Dumbass 0]

In many respects, it's a shame Roddenberry never got to develop the Romulans as he had desired.

On the other hand, if he HAD been able to develop the Romulans more in TOS, they would be less interesting as villans in TNG.

[Images 0]

the whole klingon honour in death and life for battle with a warrior class seems to resemble viking or samurai society. The idea of the drinking and brawling in the afterlife and a lust for battle matches the vikings more, however the idea for honour and suicide rather than shame is more associated with the samurai and their uniforms do resemble the samurai armour to some affect...any thoughts which one?

Edited December 16, 2003 by Images

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

I don't think there was ever really any serious concern about the culture of Klingons during The Original Series. It wasn't until The Next Generation that issue even seemed to exist.

 

As to who their based on, I think it's a mixture. While the Romulans were clearly an offshoot of the Roman Empire, I think the Klingons are numerous 'historical' peoples mixed into one.

[ens_tino 0]

I never knew the Remens exsisted until the making of Nemesis. So this is new information to me.

[willingham 0]

Well, according to ST:TNG Technical Guide it did list as Romulus being part of the Romulus-Remus stellar pair. Which I have passed it by until now with this story.

[Dumbass 0]

I never knew the Remens exsisted until the making of Nemesis. So this is new information to me.

I acctually wish Nemesis had concentrated more on the Romulans. Everything seemed like it was Shinzon this or Remans that.

Edited December 18, 2003 by Dumbass

[ens_tino 0]

Im just suprised the Romulans didnt help the Enterprise. Shinzon killed the Romulan council so they did have an excuse.

[Nemesis 0]

Im just suprised the Romulans didnt help the Enterprise. Shinzon killed the Romulan council so they did have an excuse.

They did help the Enterprise silly Tino, and why they didn't do it the first time when the senate died was because Shinzon became Praetor silly :)

[Dumbass 0]

They did help the Enterprise silly Tino, and why they didn't do it the first time when the senate died was because Shinzon became Praetor silly :)

Yeah, and the Romulan military helped hin become Praetor because they WANTED him to go after Picard.

[Nemesis 0]

Yeah, and the Romulan military helped hin become Praetor because they WANTED him to go after Picard.

Not Picard you mean Earth they were questioning Shinzon's quest of vengence to Picard who really did nothing to him but exist. Nemesis reminded me of the Shakespearen play Julius Ceaser because it followed a similar root theme order cannot be based upon a disorderly base :)

[ens_tino 0]

You guys can at least give me some time before you prove me wrong like you guys usually do you know.

 

jk

[Nemesis 0]

You guys can at least give me some time before you prove me wrong like you guys usually do you know.

 

jk

correction Tino like we always do ;)

[ens_tino 0]

Thats true.

[willingham 0]

yep ;)

[KhreRiovtRex 0]

Ugh....now I see that I'm going to have to spend part of the weekend writing up a rebuttal on behalf of the RES Talon and our Rihannsu simmers. I only have a few moments now, but will write more later.

 

Remember, the terms Romulus and Remus are the Terran words for what you call our race. In our language, we call ourselves the Rihannsu. The two main planets in our star system are ch'Rihan and ch'Havran.

 

I know that we on the Talon, as well as some other Rihannsu sims I know of in other forums, for the most part will not include the majority of the information from the 'Nemesis' movie to be used in their simming. The movie just changes way too many premises that have been set for over 35 years, that we have gone by. I know I've been simming on Rihannsu sims online for almost 10 years now, and to have one movie come and change everything you've been doing, can be frustrating. Especially as that is often the only medium that new players have to learn of our type of sims, and they come in, expecting to play in this manner, and thinking this is the only history.

 

Face it, one of the major inconsistancies, was the fact that in Nemesis, "Remus" was a barren ball of dilitium to be mined. No way. The fact that the Romulans are very Xenophobic, and that they were so very mineral and resource scarce, is what has led them to expand their territories. It is also why they developed the AQS, as a power source for thier ships, because there was no dilithium. If there had been a whole planet of it as close as our moon is to us..they'd have never left their system!!

 

Anyway..I'll write more later

 

 

RECOMMENDED READING:

References to any and all information of "Star Trek The Next Generation" and or "Star Trek," the series are registered trademarks of Paramount Pictures. "R" all rights reserved. (Please note, while recommended reading, that only characters, places and events taking place on the Star Trek television shows or movies (not Nemesis) will be considered as 'canon,' should there be any dispute.

 

We have several recommended reading lists for our Rihannsu sim, though this is not a complete list, we do follow the histories set down in many of these sources. And I know there are those that will say that the books, or the old role-playing games (1966, 1983, ect), are not canon. As far as we're concerned, they all have that Paramount stamp on them, and the copyright, so they are our guide.

 

"The Web of the Romulans" by M.S. Murdock (TOS)

"The Romulan Way" by Diane Duane and Peter Morwood. (TOS)

"Swordhunt" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"Honor Blade" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"The Romulan Prize" by Simon Hawke (TNG)

"My Enemy, My Ally" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual" by Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda.

"The Star Trek Encyclopedia" by Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda, and Debbie Mirek.

"Star Trek Chronology" by Michael Okuda and Denise Okuda.

"Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual" by Franz Joseph

"The Way of D'era - The Romulan Star Empire". Copyright 1999. Published by Last Unicorn Games under license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner. (Star Trek TNG Role Playing Game, Books 1-3, plus maps and pullouts) by James Estes, Ross A. Isaacs, Evan Jamison, Steve Kenson, Steve Long, Richard Meyer, Christian Moore, Peter Schweighofer

"Star Trek: The Role Playing Game." Copyright, 1966, 1983. Published by FASA Corporation under exclusive license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner.

"Star Trek :The Next Generation Role-playing Game". Copyright 1998. Published by Last Unicorn Games under license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner.

DS9 DVD sets (see season 4-7 for more Rihannsu, several episodes).

[Nemesis 0]

t'Rex you have to realize a lot of that stuff you mentioned were in books like the ones you had mentioned and not in the actual series where you should be getting your history. Now there are many things that I disagree with how you sim Romulans but thats just because I'm someone who loves Romulans beyond any other race.

 

The fact that the Romulans are very Xenophobic

 

Now there is something you are forgetting in that the Remans are actually an offshot from the Romulans but only are adepted for the climate on Remus for they have lived on for almost 2000 years.

[STSF_BluRox 0]

t'Rex you have to realize a lot of that stuff you mentioned were in books like the ones you had mentioned and not in the actual series where you should be getting your history. Now there are many things that I disagree with how you sim Romulans but thats just because I'm someone who loves Romulans beyond any other race.

 

 

 

Now there is something you are forgetting in that the Remans are actually an offshot from the Romulans but only are adepted for the climate on Remus for they have lived on for almost 2000 years.

I do believe that is what I said in the first place. The books are a must for races that have not been developed as much on the show. It is a must, that many of the things we use come from the books. But remember, a lot of what you're stating from the shows, only came about in the TNG and forward era from the last '80's. You state that we should only be getting our history from the shows. But, since some of us have been playing longer than most of the shows were out..that makes it a bit difficult, to have to re-write the history you use, each time a new episode is written. That, and the fact that many of the writers of the books we use for our histories, also were writers on the original show, gives it a strong tie in.

 

Some of us have been playing table-top role-playing since back in the '70's, long before these shows came out, and thus, the books, were the only resources besides watching "The Balance of Terror" over and over again. Alot of us that do play Rihannsu or other smaller races, have been doing so for 10, 20, 30 or more years.

 

Remember, Trek is not only the last few years. The first FASA Role-playing games came out when even I was only little, but I've been playing since I was 6 years old myself. Then there was the entire line of "Star Fleet Battles" games, also put out by FASA. And each still has that Paramount approved stamp inside.

 

If you want to only look at stuff from the televison, there as also obvious things that can be seen. For example. In TNG - They make note several times, that the ships are powered by and AQS, because of the lack of dilitium. Romulan Ale, as seen in ST:VI, is blue, in Nemesis, it was not. The list is huge.

 

But thanks for your comments, Sub-Erein.

Edited December 19, 2003 by STSF_BluRox

[Nemesis 0]

Valid points but I am only discussing the way you seem to not like how the Romulans were made out in the TNG era which extends out to Nemesis and not how you sim it and that is it.

[Dumbass 0]

Then one question needs to be asked.

 

In the TOS episode that the audience was first introduced to the Romulans Romulus and Remus were introduced as the "co-founders" of the Romulan Star Empire. I'm not sure if this is canon (by either Star Trek standards or RES Talon standards) but I remember reading an article that said the two worlds the bird of prey (meaning an actual bird of prey, not a ship class) held in it's claws on the official symbol of the Romulan Empire (as opposed to the "Nemesis" version) were symbolizing Romulus and Remus.

 

If the Romulans are as xenophobic as you say then why would Remus be accorded the status of an equal partner?

Edited December 19, 2003 by Dumbass

[ens_tino 0]

I have noticed that as well. The Romulan Star Empire contains the Remens so that does bring up a good question.

 

Why werent they treated as equals?

[Nemesis 0]

If the Romulans are as xenophobic as you say then why would Remus be accorded the status of an equal partner?

When Romulus and Remus were first discovered they were both of the same species until evolution allowed them to Adapt together. About Blu's comment about Dilithium although they did not power their ships with it does not mean they traded the little they had with other species, with the Romulan ale who's to say it doesn't come in varing flavours and also this is another century who's to say the chemical composure hadn't changed over those years?

[Dumbass 0]

with the Romulan ale who's to say it doesn't come in varing flavours and also this is another century who's to say the chemical composure hadn't changed over those years?

A little known secret we learned at Shore Leave 25 West: Romulan Ale is actually Bud Light with blue food coloring. ;) And Ale is basically another kind of beer. Why do we treat it like its wine (the wedding scene) or some kind of hard alcohol?

 

And my point is this: 1) We know from TOS that Romulus and Remus were equal partners in the founding of the Empire. 2) We know from virtually every source that Romulans are xenophobic.

 

Either the Romulan Star Empire as a political organization is a lot older than we think it is, and thus should be a lot larger than it is by now, or 1) and 2) conflict with each other.

Edited December 19, 2003 by Dumbass