Where Star Trek comes from.

[ens_tino 0]

Its probaly ancient. A lot of these species according to the timeline I found had set up a society while we were making cave paintings.

[Nemesis 0]

Its probaly ancient. A lot of these species according to the timeline I found had set up a society while we were making cave paintings.

The Romulans are from Vulcan but left after the complete overhaul of logic so I doubt they were many cave paintings on Romulus ;)

[ens_tino 0]

The Romulans are from Vulcan but left after the complete overhaul of logic so I doubt they were many cave paintings on Romulus ;)

What I meant by cave painting was that earth was making them not Romulus.

[Nemesis 0]

What I meant by cave painting was that earth was making them not Romulus.

But then you are not referring to the Romulan empire but the Vulcans ;)

[Dumbass 0]

The Romulans are from Vulcan but left after the complete overhaul of logic so I doubt they were many cave paintings on Romulus ;)

This may not be cannon, but...

 

Around 80 BC, Terran dating, Surak began to practice the control of emotions and publicly stating that logic was the way to peace. His ideals were very slow to spread and it took many years before people began to take him very seriously, but he did recieve some followers. One of these was a young man named S'Task, who was Surak's finest pupil.

 

Around 20 BC the first signals from an alien race were recieved on Vulcan requesting a peace envoy. However, the aliens did not come in peace. They were Orion slave pirates, and they wanted the Vulcans for their slaves. The Orions captured many of Vulcan's leaders, including S'Task, now Surak's most trusted lieutenant, who had led the original peace envoy.

 

This began the greatest of Vulcan's wars. They fought with their more primitive space ships, but these were not enough to beat the Orions. They used their mind talents to manipulate the Orions into attacking each other and / or to drive their ships into the sun. Surak himself took no part in the fighting to save his race. On the slave ship S'Task had escaped captivity, and began to form a rebellion against the Orions. He and his followers over-powered the pirates and eventually crashed the slave transport into the Orion mother ship. He escaped in an escape pod, and was found weeks later, almost dead, but kept alive by his own anger.

 

This began the split between Surak and his student S'Task. After his experience with the Orions, S'Task renounced the pacifism of Surak, saying that pacifism was inappropriate in the hostile universe waiting in interstellar space. However, he did not reject the *logic* of Surak. (This underlies a point I have made elsewhere - pacifism is not logical.) S'Task was not willing to promote his philosophies actively against Surak for fear of prodding Vulcan back into a state of war and anarchy. It was with this in mind that S'Task proposed an alternate solution.

 

S'Task and his followers decided to leave Vulcan, using the technology that they had stolen from the Orions. They would find a new planet to live on, with the laws that they wanted, so that Surak and his followers, now many of them, could live their own way. Surak's farewell gift to his former student and trusted lieutenant was his personal ceremonial sword.

 

The survivors who reached their new planet called themselves the Rihannsu, or the Declared. The planets that they found were a twin set. They named the planets ch'Rihan and ch'Havran.

 

My point: To say the race we now call Romulans rejected logic is incomplete. They were able to make a distinction between logic and pacifism that Surak was not able to make, and it is only the pacifism that was rejected.

Edited December 20, 2003 by Dumbass

[Nemesis 0]

Wow where did you find that it sounds interesting ;)

[Dumbass 0]

Wow where did you find that it sounds interesting ;)

I just did Google searches on Vulcan History and Romulan History. Like I said, it may not be cannon.

[Nemesis 0]

I'm going to answer the question of how StarTrek was made now:

 

well the daddy was named Mr.Star and the mommy was named Miss. Trek so when they got married they joined their names because they were newaged and then their son Bob is know as Mr. StarTrek

 

Bet you didn't know Mr. StarTrek's first name was Bob now did you ;)

[Marris Krax 0]

Now there is something you are forgetting in that the Remans are actually an offshot from the Romulans but only are adepted for the climate on Remus for they have lived on for almost 2000 years.

::Scratches head::

 

<rant> Yanno, this is something that has bugged me greatly. How the heck could a race of people split off so dramatically in such a short period of time into a seperate sub-species? I mean, for crying out loud, the Romulans aren't that different than Vulcans. Yet the Remans, over the course of 2,000 years have suddenly turned into ugly space monsters? How much have we changed physically over 2,000 years? Or, how different are people in China from people in Africa or Europe or America? And please don't pull the fact that the environment is so different as to warrant that kind of rapid evolution. If the Romulans/Remans were so advanced that they could launch themselves to an entirely different planetary system, they would have had sufficient technology to create suitable habitats or change the environment to the point where it would be suitable to them in their present state. For example, I don't think we would, if we were to set up a colony on Mars, suddenly find our colonist breatheren several generations down the road to be space monsters. Possibly with a slightly different bone structure, given the difference in gravity, but not fundamentally different, as the environment they would have to create for themselves to live there in the first place would be a reasonable re-creation of environmental conditions on Earth. </rant>

[Nemesis 0]

First off the Climate is so radically differant and I doubt they would've had sufficent technology to make a suitable habit like that on Remus.

[Marris Krax 0]

Then one question needs to be asked.

 

In the TOS episode that the audience was first introduced to the Romulans Romulus and Remus were introduced as the "co-founders" of the Romulan Star Empire. I'm not sure if this is canon (by either Star Trek standards or RES Talon standards) but I remember reading an article that said the two worlds the bird of prey (meaning an actual bird of prey, not a ship class) held in it's claws on the official symbol of the Romulan Empire (as opposed to the "Nemesis" version) were symbolizing Romulus and Remus.

 

If the Romulans are as xenophobic as you say then why would Remus be accorded the status of an equal partner?

Well, xenophobia doesn't really come into play if you're talking about a single political entity, which is what I think most of the pre-Nemesis sources of Reman info were pointing at. Remans *are* Romulans, as far as those authorities are concerned; they're just living on another rock. Like, Reman:Romulan::Californian:American; you have to be the latter in order to be the former.

 

This is just pure speculation on my part of course, since I know next to nothing about Romulans except for what I've heard from several Rommie simmers, including our esteemed t'Rex ::remembers a particularly passionate rant at SL 24 about the upcoming movie Nemesis::

[Marris Krax 0]

First off the Climate is so radically differant and I doubt they would've had sufficent technology to make a suitable habit like that on Remus.

If it were so radically different as that, then they probably wouldn't have been able to live there in the first place without some sort of environmental alterations, like a biodome or terraforming. And considering we at least have biodomes, I do believe the Romulans/Remans would have been able to alter their environment that much.

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone happen to know from any encyclopedic source what class planet Remus is? Like, is it listed as class-M or class-L or class-Whatever?

[Nemesis 0]

If it were so radically different as that, then they probably wouldn't have been able to live there in the first place without some sort of environmental alterations, like a biodome or terraforming. And considering we at least have biodomes, I do believe the Romulans/Remans would have been able to alter their environment that much.

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone happen to know from any encyclopedic source what class planet Remus is? Like, is it listed as class-M or class-L or class-Whatever?

But biodomes would still deform them that way with the lack of available sunlight

[Dumbass 0]

I'm going to answer the question of how StarTrek was made now:

 

well the daddy was named Mr.Star and the mommy was named Miss. Trek so when they got married they joined their names because they were newaged and then their son Bob is know as Mr. StarTrek

 

Bet you didn't know Mr. StarTrek's first name was Bob now did you ;)

In that order? They had the baby and then they got married?

[Marris Krax 0]

ROFL!! Okay, in a google search for what class planet Remus is, I stumbled upon this lovely little parody. In case you aren't interested in reading the whole thing (I haven't), then here is the bit I found particularly funny...

 

------

 

This went on for quite a while, with the two continuing to zoom in and still not finding the third Romulan homeworld. Finally, after yet another request to zoom in, the computer responded. Unable to comply. Map is at maximum magnification.

 

Braxton squinted at the map some more, and then pointed at a particular spot. "Wait! What's this little dot right here?"

 

Ducane looked at where Braxton was pointing. "There's something there, but it's too small to read."

 

Braxton whipped out a magnifying glass and examined the dot. "You've got to be kidding me..."

 

Ducane took a turn. "You mean the three Romulan homeworlds are Romulus, Remus... and Fred?"

 

Picard nodded. "Yes, and the Fredians have taken over the Romulan government. The leader of the coup wants to open a dialogue with the Federation. Specifically, he wants to talk to you. Therefore, he must be either insane or an evil clone who wants to drain your blood. Either way, I'm sending you on the off chance that this mystery person will be successful in killing you. Dismissed!"

[Marris Krax 0]

But biodomes would still deform them that way with the lack of available sunlight

Yeah, and a lack of sunlight would make it hard to grow plants in a biodome, too. This is why one uses artificial lighting. And tanning beds. ;)

 

Edit: Lack of light does not, however, account for claws and giant heads and a general monster-like appearance. If that were the case, nerds who spend all of their time indoors, in basements, in front of their computers would garner a heck of a lot more respect out of being scary and intimidating instead of pale, pasty, and pencil-necked :(

 

No offense to nerds or anything, as I am your sister dork with nerd tendencies.

Edited December 20, 2003 by Marris Krax

[Nemesis 0]

Maybe they just wanted to buff up their look so they genetically transformed themselves and it came out bad and now the Romulans are punishing them for their stupidity?

[Marris Krax 0]

Maybe they just wanted to buff up their look so they genetically transformed themselves and it came out bad and now the Romulans are punishing them for their stupidity?

Methinks that is the only explaination within the framework of Nemesis and believability that could possibly work. But it's just so much easier to disregard the movie entirely when simming, considering how much of a departure it was from what had been established by canon and non-canon sources alike.

 

And I also think that I should stop posting in this thread, because I keep rambling about something I really know nothing about ;)

[willingham 0]

The topic is getting too weird.

[Vex Xiang 0]

A little known secret we learned at Shore Leave 25 West: Romulan Ale is actually Bud Light with blue food coloring.  And Ale is basically another kind of beer. Why do we treat it like its wine (the wedding scene) or some kind of hard alcohol?

 

Romulan Ale isn't beer...despite it being called 'ale', all of the RA drinks on the show have been solid without any head. There may be different types of Romulan Ale that affect its flavor...heck, there may even be a whole line of flavored Romulan Ale ala Absolute.

 

Unless its just brewed differently...maybe it's just flat ale!

 

But it's just so much easier to disregard the movie entirely when simming, considering how much of a departure it was from what had been established by canon and non-canon sources alike.

 

Hmm...well if you disregard Nemesis, you're disregarding canon...so your sim simply isn't following canon. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't ignore canon if you want to stick to Trek.

 

We know next to nothing about the Romulan culture...when it really comes down to it, Nemesis just walked over the non-canon Trek stuff...not canon. Books IMO are only decent for simming if previous information hasn't already been covered by Trek. Now it has, so any information from those books that conflicts with Nemesis should be ignored. If, that is, you want to stick to canon. If not, the sky is the limit and you can pick and choose from what ideas/facts you want to use...nothing wrong with that either.

 

Yet the Remans, over the course of 2,000 years have suddenly turned into ugly space monsters?

 

We never did have any explanation for the Remans explained in the movies (no book explanations please!).

 

My best guess at this point would be that the Romulans came to a planet already inhabited by an alien race...either by simple conquest or perhaps by interbreeding to create a hybrid subrace that was put into enslavement. The Remans could have no relation to the Romulans at all. The fact that the Remans now live on Remus could simply be that the Romulans displaced them there, and their original home was Romulus.

 

Just a thought...until a Trek movie or episode explains Remans, its all up in the air...and all theories hold water equally.

Edited August 12, 2004 by Vex Xiang

[willingham 0]

Vex, can I ask you something? Why did you bring up my Reman subject after 6 months?

[KhreRiovtRex 0]

Ok, before I start ranting too badly.....Let me just start with this. Don't worry, this will be a short rant, because with the broken shoulder, I only have the one hand to type with, and it take too long to rant!! LOL

 

READ "The Romulan Way"!!! Followed by "The Way of the Romulans".

 

It is "THE" guidebook for basically any Rihannsu (Romulan) Role-playing group, sim, table-top game, what have you that is worth it's salt. The explaination that VanRoy picked up off the net is originally taken from these two books. Much of it word for word. Yes, they left Vulcan, yes they originally had those among them with strong psi powers and they were the ones that navigated the ships. However, due to accidents, being attacked several times on the way (which is part of why they became xenophobic in the first place, including the attack on vulcan before they left). By the time they found the two planet system, they had lost all of their people with psi ability, and seriously, any good Rihan will not even try that "I've got lost vulcan powers" stunt. Many of the older travellers, settled on the more wild planet, with it's forests and fields, which is ch'Havran or Remus as some call it. The more reactionary, or those wishing to lead, settled on ch'Rihan, or Romulus. So, after 35 years of Romulan background in Star Trek books, roleplaying games, cartoons, comics, ect....you can see why most of us that have been playing Romulan characters for many, many years, just can't buy into the "Remus" is a chunk of dilitium theory. If they had a whole planet of dilitium, they'd have not had to develop the AQS for propulsion, as they'd have had a ready source of dilitium and would not have had to do otherwise. Anyway, I've said all this before, so am just going to post my earlier rank below. I'll fill in any blanks later. Time for a break.

 

Seriously though, read the books in my reference list for the Talon. Some of them are quite good. And for Vulcan's, there is some very good early history there for you as well.

 

 

Posted on: Dec 19 2003, 02:41 PM

 

Ugh....now I see that I'm going to have to spend part of the weekend writing up a rebuttal on behalf of the RES Talon and our Rihannsu simmers. I only have a few moments now, but will write more later.

 

Remember, the terms Romulus and Remus are the Terran words for what you call our race. In our language, we call ourselves the Rihannsu. The two main planets in our star system are ch'Rihan and ch'Havran.

 

I know that we on the Talon, as well as some other Rihannsu sims I know of in other forums, for the most part will not include the majority of the information from the 'Nemesis' movie to be used in their simming. The movie just changes way too many premises that have been set for over 35 years, that we have gone by. I know I've been simming on Rihannsu sims online for almost 10 years now, and to have one movie come and change everything you've been doing, can be frustrating. Especially as that is often the only medium that new players have to learn of our type of sims, and they come in, expecting to play in this manner, and thinking this is the only history.

 

Face it, one of the major inconsistancies, was the fact that in Nemesis, "Remus" was a barren ball of dilitium to be mined. No way. The fact that the Romulans are very Xenophobic, and that they were so very mineral and resource scarce, is what has led them to expand their territories. It is also why they developed the AQS, as a power source for thier ships, because there was no dilithium. If there had been a whole planet of it as close as our moon is to us..they'd have never left their system!!

 

Anyway..I'll write more later

 

 

RECOMMENDED READING:

References to any and all information of "Star Trek The Next Generation" and or "Star Trek," the series are registered trademarks of Paramount Pictures. "R" all rights reserved. (Please note, while recommended reading, that only characters, places and events taking place on the Star Trek television shows or movies (not Nemesis) will be considered as 'canon,' should there be any dispute.

 

We have several recommended reading lists for our Rihannsu sim, though this is not a complete list, we do follow the histories set down in many of these sources. And I know there are those that will say that the books, or the old role-playing games (1966, 1983, ect), are not canon. As far as we're concerned, they all have that Paramount stamp on them, and the copyright, so they are our guide.

 

"The Web of the Romulans" by M.S. Murdock (TOS)

"The Romulan Way" by Diane Duane and Peter Morwood. (TOS)

"Swordhunt" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"Honor Blade" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"The Romulan Prize" by Simon Hawke (TNG)

"My Enemy, My Ally" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual" by Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda.

"The Star Trek Encyclopedia" by Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda, and Debbie Mirek.

"Star Trek Chronology" by Michael Okuda and Denise Okuda.

"Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual" by Franz Joseph

"The Way of D'era - The Romulan Star Empire". Copyright 1999. Published by Last Unicorn Games under license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner. (Star Trek TNG Role Playing Game, Books 1-3, plus maps and pullouts) by James Estes, Ross A. Isaacs, Evan Jamison, Steve Kenson, Steve Long, Richard Meyer, Christian Moore, Peter Schweighofer

"Star Trek: The Role Playing Game." Copyright, 1966, 1983. Published by FASA Corporation under exclusive license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner.

"Star Trek :The Next Generation Role-playing Game". Copyright 1998. Published by Last Unicorn Games under license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner.

DS9 DVD sets (see season 4-7 for more Rihannsu, several episodes).

[willingham 0]

These are all good info. Thanks for the info, if it is indeed 6 months old.

[Merina 0]

"The Web of the Romulans" by M.S. Murdock (TOS)

"The Romulan Way" by Diane Duane and Peter Morwood. (TOS)

"Swordhunt" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"Honor Blade" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"The Romulan Prize" by Simon Hawke (TNG)

"My Enemy, My Ally" by Diane Duane (TOS)

"Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual" by Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda.

"The Star Trek Encyclopedia" by Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda, and Debbie Mirek.

"Star Trek Chronology" by Michael Okuda and Denise Okuda.

"Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual" by Franz Joseph

"The Way of D'era - The Romulan Star Empire". Copyright 1999. Published by Last Unicorn Games under license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner. (Star Trek TNG Role Playing Game, Books 1-3, plus maps and pullouts) by James Estes, Ross A. Isaacs, Evan Jamison, Steve Kenson, Steve Long, Richard Meyer, Christian Moore, Peter Schweighofer

"Star Trek: The Role Playing Game." Copyright, 1966, 1983. Published by FASA Corporation under exclusive license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner.

"Star Trek :The Next Generation Role-playing Game". Copyright 1998. Published by Last Unicorn Games under license from Paramount Pictures Corporation, the trademark owner.

DS9 DVD sets (see season 4-7 for more Rihannsu, several episodes). [/color]

You do know you posted twice right?

[Captain Huff 0]

I have always liked the history of the beginnings of the Romulans as an offshoot from the Vulcans. The short timeframe for their change not only does not bother me, but rather I find it key. It is a reminder of how fragile our control is. I don't think it would take more than a few generations for Vulcans (or Humans) to lose their discipline and revert to more primal ways. Vulcan "traits" are learned and developed, not inherent. (What I *do* have a problem with is the heinous forehead mutation in such a short time. Not only is it ugly, it's dumb.)

 

This was a recurring theme of Roddenbury's. The level of society that is reached in Star Trek is fragile. It would be very easy to revert to racism, slavery, oppression... He used many examples throughout to portray these different elements and remind us that we need to keep vigilant to maintain what we have.

 

As for books and Romulans and cannon... I appreciate that there is little Trek history on the Romulans, and I am disappointed in Nemesis' choice for back-history. I am pleased that the Klingons were developed as well as they were, and this is probably the reason I sim Klingon rather than Romulan. Ah well. It's probably too late and damaged to back-write the Romulans a bit better, but you never know. They've made the Andorians cooler... :D