Nemesis

[Webmaster 20]

Note: This thread is for the discussion of the new Star Trek Nemesis movie and may contain spoilers.  If you have not yet seen the movie and do not wish to know anything about what happens, do not read this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow...  what a great movie!  It was great to see each character move on a personal level.  From the movie's opening with Picard's toast to the new bridge and groom to the very end of the movie where Data says goodbye before saving the Enterprise.  I truly could feel the sence of family and compassion that each character had for one another.  

 

Watching Picard and Shinzar match wits against one another also was very fun....  along with Troi and the Shinzar's right hand man.  Where it simply was not a battle of who had more or better guns than the other...  but who had the tactical skill, knowledge, and intellegence to overcome the other.  

 

The movie was left wide open at the end, the Enterprise being rebuilt, the Federation still standing as strong as before, and now even a possible new allience with the Romulans.  I think Paramount has definately left room for a new movie somewhere down the road.  Personally I think if they do decide to follow with the Enterprise, they could bring the Titan and the Enterprise together for a mission, or they could do a lot of new things with Trek that has never been tried before.

 

Overall, I truly enjoyed the movie.  I'll be one of the first in line to buy it when it comes out on DVD.

[Garnoopy 0]

I literaly just got back from the movie.

 

My opinon of Nemisis isn't as high as the Webmasters. I mean, the plot was nothing special. I mean, Romulans create conspiracy, blah blah, earth is threatened. The valiant Picard and the USS Enterprise rush in to save earth, and then win, naturally.

 

I thought hte movie started out wonderfully. The wedding with Deanna and Riker, and Picard saying to Data, "Shut Up". The comedy was absolutely wonderful. To finially see Riker and Troi married was also wonderful.

 

Ok, after that, they go to a planet to investigate posotronic readings. On their way, and once they get there, there is some great comedy such as Picard saying to Riker, "You have the bridge Mr. Troi". And on the planet, Data saying how he cannot figure out why humans want to get into fast moving viehcles.

 

The Romulans then call the Federation to say they want to talk about peace, and the Federation sends the Enterprise, because it's the closets. Ok, I guess that would be reasonable, but it would be more reasonable to send some very good diplomats instead of a ship of exploration.

 

Meanwhile, Data downloads his memories to B4 under Picards suggestion. Your gonna tell me Picard would allow Lt. Cmdr. Data's security codes, memories, thoughts, and ability to work the computer go into an android which they know nothing about? Hehehehe, very odd.

 

The movie is jsut shooting from then on. I expected emotion from PIcard about having a brother who is a clone, there was none more than a little here and there. And the Romulans changing sides like they did? Very odd.

 

In the end, when Picard rams the ship, a very good graphics sequence. And when Data flies over to the other ship in space, also very cool. Data's death however was a shock 2 me, I hadn't expected it. A very very sad moment. I could not believe they had killed him off.

 

When all the crew were standing around talking about Data, and Riker remembers the first time he saw Data, I remembered that. I could picture it in my mind, Data trying to whistle, and Riker finishing the tune for him cause Data couldn't do it.

 

Overall, I think the movie was ok. I thought the previous TNG movies were better, but maybe this one will grow on me.

 

Hehehe, and for those of you who wish to dispute, be my guest. These are only my opinions.

[Webmaster 20]

Actually part of what made it interesting for me was it was not the ROMULANS themselves.  It was the exiled group on Romas.  They overthrew the Romulan Senate (killed em off basically with the military's help) and took over control themselves.  

 

I think it's great that we're finally starting to see some insight into the Romulan Empire.  They were the group that we never got any insight into.  We know a lot about the Klingons, Cardassians, the Founders, etc...  but never the Romulans.  Why though?  They are one of the MAJOR superpowers in the quadrant.  Nemesis helps to address this.  

 

We had a glimpse into the great Romulan Senate...  we had a chance to see the internal friction that exists between the Senate and the Military even though both are dependent on one another.  And we had a chance to see the "underside" of Romulan society, the Romerans.  

 

As far as the Enterprise being the one sent to the Romulan Emipre...  that was something orchestrated by Shinzar.  He knew the Enterprise would detect the positronic signal and that they would be too curious to just pass it by.  And he knew it would bring them RIGHT to the edge of the neutral zone.  While they were there investigating, all he had to do was send the message of peace.  

 

What is the Federation going to do?  Send a diplomat all the way from Earth when they have Picard sitting right there on their doorstep?  Picard is one of the Federation's best spokesman.  He's represented them in tons of first contact situations, and negociated many peace treaties.  IMHO, he's the one of the BEST diplomats in the Federation even though he is a member of the military and and an explorer.

 

And as far as Picard's reaction to his clone, how would you feel if you were suddenly presented with the "evil" version of youself?  Would you simply just accept him and hope things would work out?  Picard was never one that showed his emotions well.  How could he realistically react to someone introduced to him as his clone that he knows nothing about?  

 

And as far as the Romulans changing sides...  I saw that happening in the first part of the movie when the Romulan Commander watched Shinzar having trouble after she was dismissed.  No one in the military was happy with Shinzar after they helped him rise to power.  They realized their mistake rather quickly after they made it.  As much as some groups say, Romulans are a not a trecherous, cruel species.  They have the intellegence of Vulcans, the same strong sence of honor like Klingons, and the cunningness of the Cardassians.  They realized getting rid of Shinzar was in their best interest as it was that of the Federation.  They also realized they could not necessarily do it on their own.  So what do they do?  Team up with the Enterprise and try to stop them as a team.  I think it's fantastic to see the encounter....  it leaves an open spot where the new Romulan Senate and the Federation could move into a better relationship diplomatically.  

 

I will agree with one of your points though...  about Picard encouraging and Data actually transfering ALL of his memories and knowledge to the B-4.  That part was a bit hard to swallow.  Though I did *love* how they had the real Data be on Shinzar's ship playing stupid before finally rescuing Picard.

 

Again...  like you said...  these are my own personal opinions about the movie.  I'm definately not trying to say yours don't matter, though I may have a slight difference in thought.  :)

[Garnoopy 0]

You have some very good points, and I agree with quite a few of them.

 

It is nice to know about the Romulans finially. To see their senate and their balance of power. They are one of the few species to remain a mystery to viewers of the Star Trek shows. Now we finially get to see their government at work. Maybe one day visists to Romulas will be as frequent as visits to the Klingon homeworld.

 

With teh diplomat thing, my point was that there are teams of speciailzied diplomats that do those things, we've heard about them all through the Star Trek series. Picard is a very good diplomat, I won't argue that, but to start negoations with one of the Federations biggest enemies? No offence to Picard, but it woudl seem a team of people trained for this type of thing would be a much better choice.

 

With the Romulans changing sides, you have a good point there, and I agree with you now that I read it over, it makes more sence than my point. My only confusion is that the Romulan ships didn't look like Romulan Warbirds, they were, hmmm, different somehow. I'll have to see it again to look at em.

 

Anyways, hehehe, always fun to voice opinions and listen to other persons opinions.

[Webmaster 20]

Picard will always be my top choice for people to conduct negociations.  He's a man of honesty, integrity, honor, and the most intellectual of all the Captains.  

 

I would trust him with something like negociations with the Romulans more than I would any team of diplomats.  :)

 

But then again, I would trust Picard more than 99 percent of the other "diplomats" out there.  My next choice if I could not get Picard would be Sisko.

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Well...it's been a few hours since I saw Star Trek X: Nemesis. My first thoughts.....

 

It was an excellent Star Trek movie. I've always felt those features which held the attitude of a well written episode (but with more money put into them) were best for the franchise. This movie falls right into that category and I'd give it a solid A.

 

Before anything else, it's amazing to see how special effects technology has developed over the years. The FX in this movie were simply amazing...yet they weren't the focus of the movie. In the same light, Nemesis has quite a lot of action/shoot'em up scenes. However, there's a quality plot under it which allows for a quality story.

 

I'm certain some will disagree, but I think it shows the story was written by a Star Trek fan. Little tidbits are throughout the story which pay tribute to the past. From "a meeting with the Tholian Ambassador" to an entire scene talking about Encounter At Farpoint, I think the movie did an excellent job keeping in the spirit of the franchise.

 

Some reviews have said the first thirty minutes of the film were a drag. I personally thought it was a well executed setup for the rest of the movie. However, I can tell some serious footage was removed from the wedding scene. I know all of Wil Wheaton's scenes were removed and a discussion between Picard/Data was also cut. The reception did, however, clearly show how much of a family these actors have become...and how much fun they had making the film.

 

There are several unanswered questions in my mind...including who is now "Number One."  I am slightly disappointed we did not get to see the U.S.S. Titan at the end of the film but it may have been too much.

 

In addition, I still think it's odd that no one in Star Trek (including Rick Berman) has a clue why advertisements continue to say "A generation's final journey begins..." Then again, since 3 of the 10 Star Trek movies take place within days/weeks of each other...

 

Overall, an excellent adventure. Some great humor mixed in with the action. An interesting plot. Would like to see some of the removed scenes (since supposedly the first cut of the film was 3 hours long.).

[Guest LtCdr Dacotah]

Saw the movie today as well, and loved the opening sequence ... heck I was thouroghly enjoying the whole movie until the end.  I loved the one liners, the genuine heartache for the loss of Data ... but what a crappy ending!!  With all the jokes about the traditional Betazoid wedding ceremony they should have ended it with that, not shots of the Enterprise being repaired.  (or perhaps a flashback to the moment when Riker met Data for the first time).  I sat there, as the credits rolled saying, "That's IT??" Loved the movie, really -- I just think it could have had better closure.  Of course this doesn't mean that it won't be in my video collection next year.   ::):

[Webmaster 20]

They did leave it wide open though for another movie to come out though.  That can help to answer our unanswered questions and build on this more.  

 

And yes...  definately one I can't wait to get on DVD.

[Dumbass 0]

I thought it sucked.  It was better than the odd-numbered ones, but the least good of the even numbered ones.

[Garnoopy 0]

Any particular reason for your opinion Vanroy? You think bad plot? Bad acting?

[STSF Precip 0]

I am just as curious as to your reasons for the obvious "thumbs down" on Nemesis Vanroy  :)

 

I liked it....I sort of wondered if just "anyone" would understand some of it.(what Dominion war?)  And as with most Star Trek Films...some technical things were overlooked to achieve various actions in the film.  (The E running out of torpedoes in a battle like that?)

 

Nonetheless..this movie in my opinion has been bashed by critics unfairly....and I plan on seeing it again.

 

Precip

[Garnoopy 0]

Oh, I definitely plan on seeing it again. Star Trek movies are funny with me.

 

When I first saw "Generations" my thoughts were "This is SOOOOOO stuipd." Now I absolutely LOVE the movie. It's like, I dislike them, then I love em. Weird isn't it? Nemisis right now to me is like, this was an ok movie, but it will probabaly grow on me. Who knows why.

[Dumbass 0]

Wesley Crusher was wearing a Starleet dress uniform despite leaving the Academy (and being a Traveler),

 

They served illegal Romulan Ale at a military wedding complete with a Starfleet band contingent.

 

They beamed Picard and Data to the Enterprise while shields were up.

 

They never explained why Worf was in a Starfleet uniform when he is now an Ambassador.

 

Should I go on?

 

The writers promised us we would have a movie that FINALLY featured the Romulans, and they weren't in even a third of the movie.  They weren't even an intregal part, the story could have been told without them.

 

Data would NEVER transfered his knowlege to B-4 without knowing more about how he got there, or why.  Didn't he learn his lesson from Lore?

 

With B-4's knowledge transplanted from Data, B-4 should have been able to access much more of the ship's systems than he did.

 

Let's see, what else?

 

Picard's Academy pic showed him bald, even though we've seen pics of young Picard with a full head of hair.

 

A whole room full of Romulan Senators just stares and watches when that radiation was spilled, and no security was around whatsoever.

 

And finally...

 

It was too damn long, almost 2 full hours.

 

***

 

Don't get me wrong, the special effects were the best of any Star Trek movie so far (although I don't know if the GMs will let me get away with that "Phaser the whole sky and torpedo anything that explodes" move in the Academy), but the story telling and the accuracy was just awful.

[Garnoopy 0]

:: blinks ::

 

You noticed all of that? I didn't catch a half of the things your saying were there! Hehehe, I gotta see this movie again.

 

I do get your point about the Romulans in the Seante, I couldn't figure out why they just sat there. And don't you think they'd ahve some sort of scanner devise thingy for people to enter the senate? For the Senator's protection that is.

 

You do raise a lot of good points Vanroy.

[STSF Precip 0]

Vanroy makes some observations here that are correct. And as a Star Trek fan I find these errors...kinda disappointing in a way...However, typically  Star Trek films simplify things in a vain attempt for those who don't follow Star Trek to not feel "clueless". This mainly applies to technical issues(shields/transporters)  Also movies are "constrained" by time to not explain things. (Note to Vanroy: A entire scene with Wesley was left on the cutting room floor Ref: star trek the magazine) Your point with Worf is another valid observation...how long would it of taken to explain his apparent return to Starfleet? The movie would of been quite longer explaining your points away to the audience....

 

Finer details were sacrificed in my opinion in order to build up he bad guy Shinzon(msp?)...which had to be done. Complex villians lead to better stories.

 

Was this the best Star Trek film of all time? No...but one of the better ones.

 

My few cents,

 

Precip

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Being the Trek nut I am, let me try to answer a few of Vanroy's remarks. :)

 

Wesley Crusher was wearing a Starleet dress uniform despite leaving the Academy (and being a Traveler),

 

As I'll say again later, Nemesis was originally 3 hours in length after they finished the first cut. By the time it reached theatres, it was down to about 2. Wil Wheaton had several scenes cut from the film. To give you an example, he was actually on the set filming for two days. If I remember the report correctly, one scene that was cut contained about 5 minutes of Wesley talking to someone. Within these words, your explanation might be.

 

They served illegal Romulan Ale at a military wedding complete with a Starfleet band contingent.

 

From what I've read online and saw in the movie, you weren't actually looking at the wedding itself...rather it's reception. As for Romulan Ale being illegal, not as if it hasn't appeared before at very important dinner occasions. Who knows...maybe Guinan brought it. :o

 

They beamed Picard and Data to the Enterprise while shields were up.

 

If you look back at Insurrection and some of the last episodes of Deep Space Nine, you'll see a very shocking thing...what appears to be them transporting people through shields. From what I remember during a scene on (I think) DS9, modern ships now have the ability to drop a section of it's shield grid without lowering the entire array. In addition, who knows...maybe they did lower their shields during the transport. Not as if the Enterprise was under attack at that point and we saw impacts against the shields.

 

They never explained why Worf was in a Starfleet uniform when he is now an Ambassador.

 

This is another scene that ended on the cutting room floor. I know for a fact there's a discussion in which Worf says something to the effect of "I could not stand being a diplomat. The urge to kill your oponent is too great." Some more details were given in the scene, but it boiled down to Worf requesting a transfer. Maybe it'll be on the DVD?

 

With B-4's knowledge transplanted from Data, B-4 should have been able to access much more of the ship's systems than he did.

 

I think the movie clearly showed B-4 was...shall we say..developmentaly delayed? He might have had all of Data's knowledge, but that doesn't mean he knew how to access/utulize it. After the transfer he couldn't even figure out who was in command of the Enterprise, much less run most of it's systems. Seems B-4 couldn't get a grip on things until he was suddenly under Shizion's remote control.

 

Picard's Academy pic showed him bald, even though we've seen pics of young Picard with a full head of hair.

 

I'll have to get myself another look at the picture when I see the movie again (going off of one visit). The basic uniform design he was wearing was used for Cadets but I also recall officers using something very similiar for "jumper/work/gym" close.

 

A whole room full of Romulan Senators just stares and watches when that radiation was spilled, and no security was around whatsoever.

 

Actually there was security...and probably a lot more further out. But look at it this way. If a member of the U.S. Senate came into the chamber, he/she isn't searched. The person sets down their briefcase and a piece of what looks like jewlery on the desk. They leave, and seem to leave it behind by mistake. Is that going to raise a red flag to you?

 

As for the radiation, we knew what it was but they didn't. Hell, they might have thought it was some sort of in door fireworks show.

 

It was too damn long, almost 2 full hours.

 

I actually thought it was too short. When I pay $6.50 to see a movie, I want my money's worth. And just for those wondering...

 

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - 2 hours & 12 minutes

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn - 1 hour & 53 minutes

Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - 1 hour & 45 minutes

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - 1 hour & 59 minutes

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - 1 hour & 47 minutes

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - 1 hour & 53 minutes

Star Trek: Generations - 1 hour & 58 minutes

Star Trek: First Contact - 1 hour & 50 minutes

Star Trek: Insurrection - 1 hour & 43 minutes

Star Trek: Nemesis - 1 hour & 56 minutes

Source:

Internet Movie Database

[Dumbass 0]

Fred, you have WAAAAAAAY too much time on your hands.

 

As for all the "cutting room floor" stuff, what matters in judging a movie is what the audience sees, not what it doesn't.

[FredM 0]

Fred, you have WAAAAAAAY too much time on your hands.

Hey there,

 

Na...that was just a few minutes of work. :)

[STSF Precip 0]

Hey FredM...darn good rebuttal!

 

And....hehe to the crew of the Hood...congradulations for somehow bribing the producers to getting the ship on the Fleet Map shown in the movie..::notes his pocketbook is lighter::

 

Precip

[Webmaster 20]

Fred, were you a lawyer in another life?  lol

[FredM 0]

Fred, were you a lawyer in another life?  lol

Hey there,

 

The term 'another life' can have several meanings depending on your geographical location. If you are using the first and third commonly used words in the phrase, it is possible to suggest that O.J. was involved in my decision making.

 

That gave me a headache just typing it.... :dead:

[Webmaster 20]

A simple solution then.  If it gives ya a headache doing it...

 

DON'T DO IT!

 

 :o      ::):      :P