Is Columbis a real hero?

[Images 0]

Anyway...so now that Columbus Day is almost over...and since celebrating it was a debate here...

 

...did anyone do anything for Columbus Day?

I spent five days in New York City, most memorable was a picture with the Naked Cowboy in Time Square ;-)

"THE" naked cowboy? Must be some strange national landmark i am unaware of.

[Guest STSF Dacotah]

Anyway...so now that Columbus Day is almost over...and since celebrating it was a debate here...

 

...did anyone do anything for Columbus Day?

I spent five days in New York City, most memorable was a picture with the Naked Cowboy in Time Square ;-)

"THE" naked cowboy? Must be some strange national landmark i am unaware of.

THE Naked Cowboy.  Although, truth be told he's not totally naked.  He wears a hat.

 

 

 

and boots.

 

 

 

and a pair of tighty-whities that say "naked cowboy" across his bum in red and blue.  He also plays a guitar.  He's there in Time Square -- everyday, rain or shine.  I guess he kinda is a landmark.  Heck he got his picture in People

[ens_tino 0]

A naked cowboy in Times Square. Now I dont want to go there anymore.

[Nemesis 0]

Hmmmmm that sounds like a job I'd excel at :D

[Images 0]

Anyway...so now that Columbus Day is almost over...and since celebrating it was a debate here...

 

...did anyone do anything for Columbus Day?

I spent five days in New York City, most memorable was a picture with the Naked Cowboy in Time Square ;-)

"THE" naked cowboy? Must be some strange national landmark i am unaware of.

THE Naked Cowboy.  Although, truth be told he's not totally naked.  He wears a hat.

 

 

 

and boots.

 

 

 

and a pair of tighty-whities that say "naked cowboy" across his bum in red and blue.  He also plays a guitar.  He's there in Time Square -- everyday, rain or shine.  I guess he kinda is a landmark.  Heck he got his picture in People

Every single day I learn something new that could put me in therapy  :laugh:

[Nemesis 0]

Woah you're not already in therapy due to these boards you're one up on me :D :D

[ens_tino 0]

I couldnt be in therapy and talk about stuff thats botherin me. There would be a lot of stuff.

[Captain Huff 0]

I have seen that naked cowboy many times.

[Dr Telano 0]

Is Columbus a hero?

Absolutely not, everything he did was based on money. As has been mentioned he wanted a faster route to the east and the lucrative trade exports that could be obtained there. (I suppose one could offer that his pursit of profit would make him a hero to the Ferengi?   :D  )

I was watching The History Channel the other day as I'm known to do now and then, and they made an interesting point I had never considered.

Columbus was an Italian, and in his day Venice Italy was THE trade empire in the world. They had built a huge fleet and were the hub of all trade coming into Europe from the East. In fact the only city that rivaled them for the longest time was Constantinople, and low and behold when the Crusades came along the Venitians were only too happy to help finance the French Crusaders and carry them to the Holy Land.. on the condition that the crusaders attacked Constantinople first. Today the greatest treasures of Constaninople can be found in.. that's right.. Venice.

But I digress. What's interesting is Columbus was indeed an italian, but the Italians would not sponsor his voyage. Ol' Chris went to other nations, promising that any nation that supported him would become THE new merchant power in the world. The spanish agreed, Columbus went and did his sailing thing, and his discoveries shifted importance from the Mediteranian to the Atlantic. Atlantic nations like England, Spain, and Portugal quickly surpassed Venice as the merchentile powers of the world, all due to the discovery of an Italian...

 

Okay long winded but interesting, at least I thought so..   :D

[Nemesis 0]

I thought so too very interesting I'll need to keep that in my memory banks  :D

[Vex Xiang 0]

I wonder if we'll still be discussing this by the time Columbus Day rolls around again next year.

[ens_tino 0]

And he was the one who started slavery in Europe which was brought here and started a Civil War so he did a lot of bad things.

[Dumbass 0]

And he was the one who started slavery in Europe which was brought here and started a Civil War so he did a lot of bad things.

Actually it was the ancient Greece that brought slavery to Europe.  In fact it's been estimated that supposedly nobile Athens had more slaves than citizens.  Even this was after the ancient Egyptians built pyramids with slave labor.

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And he was the one who started slavery in Europe which was brought here and started a Civil War so he did a lot of bad things.

Actually it was the ancient Greece that brought slavery to Europe.  In fact it's been estimated that supposedly nobile Athens had more slaves than citizens.  Even this was after the ancient Egyptians built pyramids with slave labor.

sorry vanroy, it's a common misconception but it's been found that the workers on the pyramids are likely to have been paid skilled labourers NOT slaves. The craftmanship was too good to be just drones and they were treated very well. There's also a pile of other stuff but it's 4 am and i'm far too lazy to do any diggin'.

 

On another topic i think that "the civil war was all about slavery" view is a bit too disneyland for me, 99.99 percent of all wars are motivated by business, from Greeks, to vikings, to normans, to crusaders. In the words of Eric Idle "Money makes the world go round"  :D

 

Oh and one more thing, the earliest types of slavery seem to actually be from ancient Africa I believe. With tribes winning a war and taking the losers as spoils. This is why some tribes acted as collaboraters to the traders during the "Golden Triangle" age of slavery. (The points being between Europe, The west coast of Africa and the United States) They'd actually war with another tribe, kidnap the survivors and sell 'em off to the highest bidder who came along with a ship to save them the trouble of catching people themselves. It's quite horrible that no matter where you go, to the places which we think are the most innocent, there are some nasty buggers trying to make a buck.

 

Well all you can do is try to do things for better reasons then they did. And that goes for Columbus, Cortes, Drake and any of our modern idols we know are not so angelic.

[Grom 0]

And he was the one who started slavery in Europe which was brought here and started a Civil War so he did a lot of bad things.

Actually it was the ancient Greece that brought slavery to Europe.  In fact it's been estimated that supposedly nobile Athens had more slaves than citizens.  Even this was after the ancient Egyptians built pyramids with slave labor.

I may be wrong...but I believe that the majority of the individuals living in Greece did not even meet the qualifications of citizenship. (In all actuality, the people of the Middle Ages, in general, were more free than the Athenians)  I'm not sure of the citizen/slave ratio in Athens, but I know the Helot/Sparta ratio might have been close to 10:1.

[Dr Telano 0]

All the sights she could have seen in New York and Dac had to see the Nekid Cowboy. Of course I believe I know who her tour guide was so it doesn't surprise me as much as it should   :D  

 

Dr Telano Ren

[Nemesis 0]

I want to meet this naked cowboy in the middle of the coldest new york day and drink a steamy hot coffee in front of him :laugh:

[Travis Kroells 0]

Right Nem...you want to go to New York.  Then you want to by some New York coffee...then you want to stand infront of a naked man and drink it...then you'll offer what's left of the coffee to him...

 

Meh, what ever floats your boat :D

[Captain Huff 0]

I have a date with Mr. Naked this week.  And I do plan on drinking a nice Manhattan Starbucks espresso as my heated bus zips by him.  Want a picture?  :D

 

What was the topic?  Ah yes, Columbus' place in history.  Did he bring coffee to America?  If so, then yes, he was a real hero.

[Travis Kroells 0]

::Shakes his head:: Now I have a headache...

[Nemesis 0]

I have a date with Mr. Naked this week.  And I do plan on drinking a nice Manhattan Starbucks espresso as my heated bus zips by him.  Want a picture?  :D

 

What was the topic?  Ah yes, Columbus' place in history.  Did he bring coffee to America?  If so, then yes, he was a real hero.

Do I want a picture of course . No columbus did not bring coffee to the Americas coffee was already in the americas well coffee beans that is well I think they were anyways :D

 

I dream of being that naked cowboy on the streets of New York playing my faithful guitar :D

[ens_tino 0]

I dont know how people can drink coffee. I like the smell but the taste is nasty,and it stunts your growth. And I have proofm of that cause my mom has drank coffee since her teens and shes only a whopping 5"2.

[Nemesis 0]

Well Tino, Coffee is addictive because of the caffine which is also the reason coke and pepsi are very popular. I myself am already over 6 feet tall so I don't need to worry about my growth being stunted. That is also a myth the reason the growth is stunted is since coffee is a stiumulent used mostly to keep teenagers awake so they can continue homework and study. This means young people are losing time to sleep which is when you grow so thats the reason. Also coffee is an aquired taste one you need to come accustomed to over time such as lobster and there are other forms of coffee that are quite tasty :D

[T'Aniz Jozef 0]

Mama Mia!  Regarding celebrating Columbus Day:  I wouldn't myself go around Little Italy, Manhattan, or Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, repeating what youze said about Senor Christoforo.  Not good for one's health.  Lots of Italian-Americans consider him their national/ethnic hero.  (Sigh, any place one steps, one can trod on toes!)  And:

 

I'm NOT a history teacher, but I do know from faculty room discussions (yes, I am an educator) that there is a technique often used called "Post Holeing":  Subjects are taught by zeroing in on an event and its operative person.  That event and person are covered in depth, then the next subject, in ANOTHER time frame is taught.  The idea is to dig holes for posts.  Put the posts in.  Then let someone else (TV, another class/teacher, a book, etc.)  flush out the in-betweens.  The stuff in-between is considered expendable, in this model of instruction!  I DON'T condone this.  Mention it just FYI.  If you find this happening in your education, this is the model being used on you.

 

There's a book out now on how the Chineese discovered the Western Hemisphere.  A few years ago there were books out on the Islamic drive across the Pacific, and what that would have meant for the development of the Western Hemisphere.  ... If Columbus usurped the native Amerindians (the sociological name for Western Hemisphere indiginant inhabitants), then those of us of European ancestry still participate, for we still benefit from what he started.  Even in 2003, we are continuing what he began, just by living on this land.  When we condemn Columbus, we condem ourselves, for we have benefited from his actions!  --  Or so goes one argumentation (line of debate).  Do I agree?  Yes and no.  It's logical.  But I can't help where I was born!

 

Finally, Columbus was trying to get a better trading route to Orient because the overland route was all but impassable.  In 1458 (I think that's the year, 1450-something, anyway), Constatinople fell.  That means the Islam world, especially the then powerful Turks, blocked overland trade routes.  War continued in eastern Europe for about another 100 years.  The Turks were not stopped until they made it all the way up to Vienna!  (That was where/when/why croissants were invented:  eating the crescent moon, no kidding.)  Obviously, this made the overland trade routes impossible.  Western Europe NEEDED another route to the Orient.  The ship trade route around the Horn of South Africa was long and dangerous.  Their hopes were unfulfilled, obviously.  But what they wanted was a direct, easy-sailing route to the East (by sailing west).  What they got was a New World.

 

 :D  ::D

You can't always get what you want.  But if you try sometime, you might find:  YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED !  --  The  R.Stones

[Captain Huff 0]

::sighs::  Unfortunately in my education they had to dig their history post holes in bedrock... and couldn't get very far!  (Great post though, thanks!  But who brought the Almighty Coffee Bean?)