Welcome to Star Trek Simulation Forum

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
TKAR

STAR TREK -DARKNESS

hi-everyone---just saw Star trek darkness-wow.......i loved it--action all the way, there is a surprise guest star in the movie,and james doohan son has a spoken part in it to -----just enjoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To boldly go where they have already gone twice before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

** Spoilers ** ** Spoilers **

 

Personally, I enjoyed Star Trek: Into Darkness.

 

I’m not a movie critic but I do know what I like in films and New TOS Star Trek is what I like. It’s nice not to hear the F-Bomb dropped every other word, heroes I can readily identify, characters who overcome shortcomings and a good old fashioned adventure. There is nothing wrong with a straightforward science fiction adventure.

= = =

 

It’s a Submarine!

 

I know I spotted a lot of the dorky and extreme nerdy complaints at various places on the Internet concerning the images leaked of the Enterprise apparently underwater?

 

“It’s a starship, it can’t be underwater.”

 

“The nacelles aren’t designed for that.”

 

And so on and so on. Typically in the Trek movies/TV shows, whenever a crew was dispatched to help or observe an alien race without detection the ship was parked behind a convenient moon or asteroid or maintaining an orbit, underwater was just never the sneaky option.

 

Therefore, this new take on the ‘let’s hide the ship’ rocked out!

 

James Tiberius Kirk

 

I’ve had my character of Calestorm comment in a few logs here and there on “Wonder Boy” aka New TOS James Kirk. She’s honestly not very fond of the kid because of what we observed in the first film with him coasting into the captaincy of the USS Enterprise.

 

Into Darkness handles this so called discrepancy nicely. Junior grows up in this film and discovers he’s not invincible and this awareness is needed to maintain the commanding officer position. The *only* other Trek that ever showed any of our CO’s moving forward or growing into a better leader was Enterprise with Archer. Picard was well on his way to maturity as a CO just to name an alternate example.

 

It’s as if these captains were written up in the series’ bible as this archetype of commanding officer and then forgotten about. Well, why are they in command? Do they ever mature more? Do they learn from mistakes?

 

The Evilness

 

I’m not saying Cumberpatch is Ricardo Montalban as Montalban will always be Khan. I will say Cumberpatch gave us a much more sinister incarnation of the character. The dude was creepy on a level that Ricardo Montalban never quite got to with his interpretation of the genetic warrior.

 

Oh. My. Gawd. Power mad Admiral Marcus in the house! Peter Weller turned in a fine performance as the despotic/rogue Section 31-type Admiral.

 

Section 31

 

I’d been wondering when Section 31 (or an incarnation of) would make an appearance in New TOS. In my opinion S31 was one of the better gimmicks introduced in Star Trek and for the new movies it was plausible to grab this and exploit it.

 

The Patron and the Chain of Command

 

Bruce Greenwood’s Captain/Admiral Pike saw potential in young James Kirk and takes him under his wing in Star Trek 2009, the father figure if you will. Into Darkness shows a rather irate Pike dressing down Kirk in a post-mission debrief. This is awesome. Why is this awesome?

 

Because other than a few random incidents, Star Trek has always been a little lax with discipline and crews and commanding officers were rarely held accountable for their actions other than a token nod in Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home when the Classic TOS crew answers for their actions of stealing the USS Enterprise and a few other random occurences such as when Tom Paris was demoted and placed in brig confinement.

 

The use of Pike also illustrates another sometimes lacking aspect of Star Trek: the Chain of Command. Other than Captain Archer in Enterprise (who checked regularly with Admiral Forrest for updates and orders) and Captain Janeway (no check in for obvious reasons as the crew really was lost in space) none of the Captains – even Classic Kirk – checked in regularly with a commanding Admiral or Commodore.

 

How can you send out a crew into spacreon this or that mission and not showcase how they regularly receive orders and maintain reports to their home base of operations? It seems New TOS attempts to address this with Admiral Pike and it’s about time to give some clarity to the Starfleet CoC.

 

Khaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn!

 

We've all seen the anger-fueled yell from Captain Kirk in The Wrath of Khan with the veins popping out on his neck and forehead. I daresay Zachary Quinto as Spock incarnation of the famous yelled name is much more believable. Khan is evil. We get it.

 

Military vs. Exploration

 

Starfleet is a peacekeeping organization. Starfleet is also able to be a military organization if needed. The tension of maintaining that balance was handled nicely in Darkness, what with Scotty resigning his commission so as not to compromise his morals and then jumping back into the fray when he was needed once the true problem was discovered and Doctor McCoy as well questioning “is this right?”.

 

The Klingons

 

W0ot! Very cool to finally have the Classic Series nemesis make an updated appearance. I liked the blending of the Motion Picture ridges with an updated gnarly forehead design as well as the update on the armor/uniforms.

 

The Tribble

 

There was a tribble. Enough said, my life is now complete.

 

= = =

Thanks all and these are just my opinions.

 

- Crash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

** Spoilers ** ** Spoilers **

 

Personally, I enjoyed Star Trek: Into Darkness.

 

I’m not a movie critic but I do know what I like in films and New TOS Star Trek is what I like. It’s nice not to hear the F-Bomb dropped every other word, heroes I can readily identify, characters who overcome shortcomings and a good old fashioned adventure. There is nothing wrong with a straightforward science fiction adventure.

= = =

 

It’s a Submarine!

 

I know I spotted a lot of the dorky and extreme nerdy complaints at various places on the Internet concerning the images leaked of the Enterprise apparently underwater?

 

“It’s a starship, it can’t be underwater.”

 

“The nacelles aren’t designed for that.”

 

And so on and so on. Typically in the Trek movies/TV shows, whenever a crew was dispatched to help or observe an alien race without detection the ship was parked behind a convenient moon or asteroid or maintaining an orbit, underwater was just never the sneaky option.

 

Therefore, this new take on the ‘let’s hide the ship’ rocked out!

 

The Tribble

 

There was a tribble. Enough said, my life is now complete.

 

= = =

Thanks all and these are just my opinions.

 

- Crash

 

The submarine? I decided long ago that if the ship can go into space it certainly can survive under water. Kind of makes sense, yanno?

Tribble, yes! Makes me wonder if that was the cause of the multiplicity of the little darlin's.

All great comments, Crash. Enjoyed the read!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said, Captain Calestorm. I, too, appreciated the increased emphasis on the Chain of Command, which is essential to the smooth workings of any organization. especially aboard a military craft. Bruce Greenwood's portrayal of Pike is exceptional; he was my favorite character in 2009's rendition.

 

Without mentioning names (spoilers), I must say I enjoyed the role reversal at the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spoilers (for the two of you who haven't seen it yet):

 

* Khan is supposed to be an Indian played by a Mexican. This new one is so white he is British.

 

* From Robocop to Terra Prime to Into Darkness Peter Weller is getting more hair the older he gets.

 

* Into Darkness is set in the year 2259. Klingons don't get their ridges back until at least 2268. They should still look like a young Count Baltar and that guy who looked and acted like Liberace.

 

* The USS Vengence is pretty badass. The only other ship we've seen that can fire weapons at warp is the Scimitar.

 

* They are really overdoing the emotional Spock thing. Plus shouldn't Kirk have not been allowed to be Captain again because of emotional compromise?

 

* New Kirk only seems to have sex with aliens. He couldn't even have sex with Carol Marcus. He better hurry up because his son David is supposed to be born in 2261.

 

* Spock Prime's role serves no purpose. All he did is tell New Spock that Khan is dangerous and not to be trusted. Well gee, he already destroyed a building, several senior officers, and a platoon of Klingons almost single handed. New Spock still needed a character judge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more:

 

* Kirk wasn't just saved from death. He did actually die. I don't care how powerful Khan's genetics are. He was not a biological Genesis Torpedo capable of reanimating dead life. Once your brain becomes oxygen-starved that's it. Your corpse is cold enough to walk over.

 

Cumberbatch is an awesome actor, but he should have been given another character to play.

 

I predicted that bringing Khan back, especially in a way that can not be reconciled to canon no matter how hard you try, would indicate the new writers were out of ideas already. I do get that they are trying to make Khan like The Joker, meaning sooner or later the opposite numbers are going to fight. They could have made Khan as different as the different Joker and Batman incarnations if they were going for a reimagining like the new BSG. However, Abrams said these new movies would not be reimaginings but would respect established canon or at least have an in-universe explanation for changing it.

 

Don't get me wrong, it is a great popcorn flick. Well worth the money to see (although I couldn't tell any difference between 3D and regular versions). But if Abrams wanted to go with a reimagining he could have said so from the beginning. He wouldn't have lost any of his audience. Trekkies might complain but ultimately they will watch *anything*. Nemesis and Enterprise proved that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, according to Memory Alpha Kirk was put into cryosleep in one of Khan's cryosleep units. So what happened to the Augment that was already in that tube.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Trek fan, I wasn't that comfortable with the reboot. However it grew on me, and I had hoped that Into Darkness would be better. It showed me that sadly the people who made this film don't understand Trek, muchless the characters they are playing with.

 

I am going to give the devil their dues here. Combining 1 episode and 1 movie together took some work. The problem is they did it in the first place. After watching countless Star Trek episodes and finally Animated, it got to me how much is rehash after rehash, new characters old plot. Sometimes not always the best of plots.

 

With acting I find anyone can play a role. A real actor makes a role Ricardo Montalban made Khan real. A villain who if he asked you, you'd follow into the pits of hell with a shield made of ice, and you'd thank him for giving him the privilege to serve him after he stabs you in the back.

 

Whoever cast Benedict Cumberland as Khan needs to get their eyes checked. He doesn't have the color, or the charisma to pull the roll off. He doesn't even have the body right for a genetic superman. Anyone remember Khan's followers from Wrath of Khan? They look like if they got into a throw down with the T-1000 it'd be a real fight. just don't see Benedict pulling that off.

 

Let's be fair here to Khan as a character. Spock's move to disable the Victory, the real Khan would've seen that move a mile away. He would've stopped it given how he helped design the ship with his superior intellect.

 

Kirk, James Tiberius Kirk. One impression I've always had from him as a character that he would live and die for the Enterprise, without it, he doesn't have a reason to go on. When he is held accountable for his actions, and being sent back to the Academy. I would've expected him to resign from Star Fleet, right there on the spot. This yo-yo of He's Captain, he's First Officer, he's Captain. Its filler, and a reason to kill Pike off simple as that.

 

The real Kirk would've trusted Scotty, and not forced him to resign.

 

The Klingons, now unless somehow Kirk's father and the Kelvin going boom affected their earlier experiments with fixing the genetic damage trying to augment themselves. They should still be ridgeless simple as that.

 

Earth and Qo'Nos, they both had a problem. Where was orbital support? How are we expected to believe a Federation starship made it above the Klingon homeworld and not face any serious challenges either there or enroute.

 

How did the Enterprise and the Victory have it out in Earth's near orbit, without there being say a weapons platform, or Starfleet command hailing either one to ask what was going on. How about a friendly dock with a tractor beam so they don't crash onto the planet below. A planet that seems 110% off guard they are above them having a slug fest!

 

I am not going to beat the dead horse of Uhura-Spock love deal. I think if they had to give Spock a love interest Nurse Chapel would be more logical.

 

I'll admit this film had some political intrigue as is worthy of Star Trek, but too much is blown on the flash, and not enough on the substance. I hate to say it, but I found that Iron Man 3 has more depth than did Into Darkness. Which shows you that these guys don't get it.

 

Someone needs to point out all these flaws to JJ Abhrams and his writers. It's almost as bad as a Michael Bays Transformers film. Heck, if I see more plot in a movie based on a comic book over Star Trek there is a big problem. If Gene was still alive, he'd be going to the press, saying how unlike Star Trek this is, and declaring it none cannon. Short of Paramount locking him up, or threatening huge lawsuits. He'd be out there making it know, this is not "Wagon Trains to the Stars."

 

While I suspect like many others than the next film will be Kirk Vs Klingons, or something along those themes. If they want to fix this train wreck of a new franchise, and get it back on track. I recommend one villain, one villain who be just perfect for dare I say it plot, and development. Q! I will let your imaginations run wild with that idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's another thing. Enterprise, with a damaged warp core and an acting chief, went from the Neutral Zone to the Federation capital world in a matter of minutes, and the Vengeance was even faster than that. You can pretend it took them a couple hours to get there, but the dialogue left no possibility of a trip that long getting back. Sorry, but there is no way info of the Narada and the Jellyfish could have made it into production that quickly even with Kahn's help. It took most of Kirk's time at the Academy just to build the Enterprise. The Vengeance is over twice that size and they had only been at it a year based on when Khan was thawed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, the next film needs to have an obviously pregnant Carol Marcus, and lots of on-screen speculation of who the father is since she isn't married, but all the speculation stops when Kirk enters the room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, the next film needs to have an obviously pregnant Carol Marcus, and lots of on-screen speculation of who the father is since she isn't married, but all the speculation stops when Kirk enters the room.

 

At the rate Abrams can make Star Trek Films (4 years). You are going to have a long wait V`Roy!! Also these actors are going to Age quickly at the rate Abrams is going. The man has too much on his resume, IMHO to even get another film done in 4 years. Actors age, the draw to Abrams films is they youth of the original crew in another timeline.

 

I agree..Into Darkness was a popcorn film as many have described here. Far better done than Nemesis, which was supposed to be an action flick as well.

 

I still dislike the Enterprise ("JJprise") for it's purported bloated sense of scale. The Vengeance I also disliked mainly for the same reason and making the Saucer look like some form of Pizza Cutter gone mad. The battle between these two vessels was filmed far too fast. Something I had a gripe with in his first film. It's like the phasers are now like machine guns. Torpedoes are worse.

 

Again, it was not a bad film. I am picky about Starships I admit. But Abrams has a major problem on his hands if he indeed wishes to maintain his stranglehold on the franchise. His film release rate at the moment is too slow. As a consequence His actors are going to age out of that "Straight out of the Academy feel". We are not going to see these characters gel..and attempts to such would be done to quickly for a film audience. Given Abrams caved in to do the Next Star Wars Film, is anyone comfortable about him getting around to another Trek Film in less than Four Years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could always pick up where the 5-year mission ends. That would be a way around the ageing / production thing. We don't really need details of that mission since it is already covered by TOS and TAS.

 

The fastness of the battles shouldn't be a concern. Remember, they were going up against ships that were vastly superior. The Narada was a few years away from being a 25th century ship and some of that technology made it into the Vengeance. I'll grant the huge saucer made no sense on a ship that supposedly had spartan living conditions and could be operated by one person if need be but perhaps this was to support a large occupation force. At any rate we are used to bloated saucers from the Enterprise-D, and the Excellsior class looked exactly like a pizza cutter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't get rid of my huge saucers.

I like being able to cut pizzas with the Enterprise.;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given Abrams caved in to do the Next Star Wars Film, is anyone comfortable about him getting around to another Trek Film in less than Four Years?

 

As compared to three TV series set in the 24th century, following the same mandates and general plotlines? Perhaps less Trek (and time) is more.

 

Mr. Abrams and his go to group wouldn't be a very good production team if they didn't work on several projects at once. It's a business and like all businesses, it's not all about one project or contract and these things can and will take several years if necessary. If four years is what it takes to bring the next New TOS film, then so be it.

 

Just because the Classic films were pumped out every two/three years or so and we had series after Trek series in predictable patterns doesn't dictate that New TOS wil follow the same pattern.

 

And I do agree with VR's take that the next film (if there is one) can pick up after - or maybe later during - the 5 year mission proposed at the end of Darkness, therefore the characters will age accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was 4 years between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises. It didn't seem to hurt the franchise (and Tom Hardy needed time to bulk up after playing a Picard clone). People will wait and maybe not even notice the time if it is a quality product. The problem with Trek is the fans wanted output at a diarrhea pace and that's what we got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well,

All I can say is, "I waited four years for THIS?" I walked away not as impressed with JJ Abrams as before. It just didn't have the same curb appeal and it was as so many have already mentioned.... done before. Honestly, I had heard in early 2010 that they were planning to revisit characters. I was disappointed that they actually went there. Personally, I believed that Abrams had a unique opportunity here to show us all the first two years of Captain Kirk's stint on the Enterprise. If we all remember when the series started, Kirk had been captain for some time. I usually categorize this as the series showing us the last three years of his five year tour since they had returned to Earth at the start of ST-TMP. I guess Hollywoodland is just not what it used to be. They need to hire some of Disney's Imagineers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure they already have, given his next project is Episode VII.

 

What makes this incarnation of Khan work for this movie (but not the franchise) is... He isn't really the bad guy. It wasn't his idea to work for Starfleet and to build the Vengeance. It was Admiral Markus's, and he was using Khan as a pawn - a fully knowledgeable pawn but still a pawn. Khan was also under duress because he couldn't know if the other Augments were alive or dead. Even if he refused to cooperate there were 72 others who might have. Markus drew first blood, or at least he let Khan think he did. Khan responded in kind. He really didn't even make a move against Kirk or the Enterprise until Scotty phasered him.

 

But what next? The Federation knows his super blood can bring back humans, tribbles, and who knows what else - and this Federation clearly doesn't have the ethics the Prime one did. What will they do with this new super blood? Probably something shocking to our sensibilities but perfectly normal to theirs. Klingons are ramping up for war, the Federation hasn't recovered from the loss of Vulcan or the decimation of Starfleet by Nero. They are desperate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I can recall, when Kirk 1st took command, the war with the Klingons was still active. In fact, until the Organians "Errand of Mercy", the Federation is still at war with the Klingons.. Just saying... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Empire and Federation were only in shooting wars with each other for very brief periods about a century apart. The rest of the time it was like the Cold War with both sides maneuvering for advantage without firing shots.

 

What the Organians did was force a cease fire. Later on there was reference to an Organian treaty so we can deduce the cease fire was made more formal. The conference we saw at Kittomer made this permanent which gave the Klingons what they needed, one less border to defend, so they could turn their resources inward.

 

It does seem they were able to quickly reestablish themselves on Kronos after having to evacuate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now of course Klingons and Starfleet still fired on each other occasionally after the cease fire, such as Star Trek III, V, VI, and DS9. You could say V and VI were not actions authorized by the Klingon government so they don't count as wars but you can't say that about III and DS9. So what happened to the Organians?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0