Stargate Universe

[Tachyon 0]

Hmm . . . looks like the majority of posters here are panning the show, so I'll see if I can play devil's advocate and do some defending. While I'm not sure I'm enjoying the show as Fred is, I'm cautiously optimistic about it.

 

Maybe it's less forgivable in the cutthroat world of 2009 television production, but many series, particularly science fiction series, started out with rocky first one or two seasons. I agree with Kairi. Every time TNG restarts from the beginning in syndication, I'm reminded of how awkward the first two seasons (especially the first season) are compared to the rest of the show. Wil Wheaton's got a new book (and some related podcasts) out in which he summarizes episodes from the first season, with his own added behind-the-scenes perspective and commentary. They're hilarious.

 

But I digress. Both Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis has rocky first seasons--Atlantis more than SG-1, although as a matter of degree this is up for debate. I'd argue that, in general, spinoff shows have more difficulty garnering acclaim, because they must both establish an identity independent of their parent shows while trying to woo the fanbase of that parent. That was my dilemma when I began watching Stargate Atlantis. For example, at first I found Colonel Shepard far too similar to Colonel O'Neill. The similarities made sense: the new show needed a relaxed cast member who was good under pressure and always had some sort of off-the-cuff remark ready. At the same time, however, carbon copy cast members are boring. As the show continued, Shepard became more his own man (although I still like O'Neill better!).

 

It's all well and good to wave a hand and declare the first season of any show a sandbox, where criticism must be qualified with a "but it's just a baby" caveat. What do I really think? Do the first episodes display a quality that indicates the show will improve? As I said before, I'm cautiously optimistic. There's certainly a great room for improvement, but the news isn't all bad. First I'll agree with some of the aforementioned criticism and then attempt to refute that with which I disagree.

 

Yes, the storage room sex scene was . . . awkward. Not so much for the tone--I don't mind if Stargate Universe plays with a more amplified sexuality than its predecessors in the franchise. Unfortunately, it did seem incongruous with the rest of the episode. It's one of those scenes that shouldn't have made it into the episode but did because the network gave the greenlight for a three-hour premiere (two hours for the first part, one hour for the second part) that gave too much editing leeway.

 

Yes, introducing Eli via a video-game-disguised Ancient conundrum was both incredibly derivative and silly. The only good thing to come of it (other than Eli himself, who is admirably awkward) is Richard Dean Anderson's line, "We'll beam you up to our space ship." Unfortunately, that line was spoiled the way most good lines are: someone decided to put it in the trailer instead of keeping it under wraps as a juicy, delectable surprise.

 

Yes, Dr. Rush is an unfulfilling character at the moment. I like that I don't like him, and I enjoyed his Machiavellian ethics in the first two hours. However, it was in "Darkness" that I found Rush far too over-the-top. His unbalanced behaviour was blamed as a combination of caffeine and nicotine withdrawal, and I suppose it makes a little sense . . . but it seemed unnecessarily emphasized. Even an amazingly egotistical scientist should recognize that in a life-or-death situation, it might be useful to have other people working on the problem. I don't mind disliking Rush, but I want to dislike him as a character, not a caricature.

 

Finally: yes, the earrings' presence irked me to no end.

 

The ship didn't look right for inside for an Ancients Vessel...Sorry SG fans. I speak mostly of the interior. Granted maybe when they get the power back on it will light up more inside. But again I am reminded of the Darker BSG ship setting.

The Destiny was built millions of years before Atlantis. Human architecture and design changes drastically in a matter of decades. If anything, I would expect the Destiny to look even less like what we expect an Ancient ship to look like.

 

They have their own brilliant and eccentric doctor type...I'll call him Gaius Baltar for now since I can't recall the character name, because that's pretty much who he is, a rip on BSG's Baltar

That's an unfair comparison, both for Baltar and for Rush. Speech patterns aside, the two characters share only a rudimentary similarity in disposition. Their ethics and motivations are quite distinct.

 

Baltar is, above all else, an opportunistic coward who benefits from an above average intellect and an ability to talk his way out of situations. He is charismatic, charming, and weaselly. His scientific achievements were only means of acquiring wealth and prestige rather than for the advancement of science itself. His ultimate goal is nothing beyond self-preservation, a short-sighted and morally questionable aim that eventually comes to haunt him by the end of the series.

 

Rush, on the other hand, is a hard-working and devoted scientist for science's sake. Unlike Baltar, he's far from charismatic: he is blunt and radically honest about people to the point of rudeness. Finally, Rush bases his actions on what he believes is for the good of the mission--note, however, that what's good for the mission may not be the same as what's good for the people on the mission, which is why Rush comes into conflict with Colonel Young so often.

 

The lead commander of the expedition is partially paralyzed after the trip through the gate...of course he is, oh, how convenient! Drama!

 

Young was paralyzed prior to his trip through the gate, in the collapse that nearly took the life of Senator Armstrong. Regardless of proximate cause, his injury certainly was a convenient plot device to force Scott into the uncomfortable position of contending with Rush for authority over the refugees. However, it's a plot device that works. It's consistent; Young is still recovering in the next episodes. And it's believable, at least if you believe that Young is the sort of person who will stay behind to make sure everyone is evacuated. So in fact, the plot device serves not only as a mechanism for putting Scott in a position of authority but showing the audience what kind of leader Young is.

 

- An Ancient ship, on a pre-recorded exploration route many many light years from Earth...Star Trek: Voyager, say what?

I don't quite follow. I see two similarities. Firstly, the main characters are stranded far from home and want to get back. This is not exactly an uncommon predicament in any genre or medium of storytelling. Secondly, the main characters are an assortment of people trained for the task and not trained. Again, such a problematic proportioning of the protagonists is not restricted to Star Trek: Voyager or even the science fiction genre alone. Finally, there Stargate Universe differs from Voyager in one major respect: the crew of Voyager never intended to go to the Delta Quadrant, whereas the goal of the Icarus project was always to get on board Destiny, knowing it might be a one-way trip. Unfortunately, circumstances dictate that they begin their mission prematurely and with less preparedness than they would prefer.

 

Comparisons are going to be inevitable, sure. I understand some fear Stargate Universe is an attempt by SyFy to cannibalize its popular franchise in order to retain the audience it captivated with BSG. However, there seems to be an urge to compare Stargate Universe unfavourably with BSG regardless of whether the evidence merits such a comparison. Is it really a bad thing that Stargate Universe is trying to experiment with a darker atmosphere than its predecessors? Plenty of science fiction was "dark" prior to BSG; does BSG's popularity mean that no show on SyFy can be dark and edgy without being branded a BSG rip-off? Is the exploration of what happens to small groups of humans trying to survive in a hostile situation taboo in science fiction because BSG did it so well? Can no characters on any science fiction show disagree or come to blows because they risk being labelled poor imitations of BSG's emotionally-charged characters?

 

Now, my intention is not to obviate criticism of the quality of Stargate Universe's attempts at a dark atmosphere or an exposition of human nature. I myself am leaning toward the camp who fear Stargate Universe plays up the drama to the point that it verges on soap opera. Again, as a longtime fan of the franchise, I'm willing to be loyal and keep watching in the hope that it does improve. In any event, it's easy, but ultimately misleading, to declare Stargate Universe a BSG rip-off simply because its themes may occasionally overlap with the latter's.

 

Kansas presents a succinct look at the methods in which BSG, Firefly, and the newest Star Trek movie established an identity that distinguished each from the larger science fiction genre. I completely agree, which is why I must disagree! By that I mean, I don't think her conclusion follows from her premise, particularly when it comes to the example of the new Star Trek movie. Originality in concept can certainly help in a story. However, a large portion of the success of the new movie is due to the fact that it's grounded in what's come before, enough that it's identifiable as Star Trek. And that's part of the powerful conversation of science fiction as a genre: stories are always building on the themes of previous works, as well as the discussion engendered by those works. The fact that many SF writers are also SF fans tends to exacerbate this phenomenon (which is by no means exclusive to the science fiction genre).

 

Firefly may be more original as a science fiction show, but that is in part due to its derivation from the Western genre. In that sense, Firefly's originality is in the synthesis of two genres rather than the creation ex nihilo of something new. From each of those genres, Firefly does take common tropes and themes. However, I'm not going to contend that Stargate Universe approaches Firefly in its creativity or quality. That would just be silly!

 

Right now, I'm not as impressed with Stargate Universe as I could be; the first few episodes have been mediocre. However, the amount of criticism it has received has, in my opinion, overrepresented the severity of its flaws, particularly in terms of atmosphere and aims. Concerns that it'll be an unworthy successor to BSG are valid, although I don't subscribe to the idea that it is somehow rip-off of BSG. I am more concerned with the quality of the show's storytelling and its ability to carve out another niche in the Stargate canon. For now, I'll wait and see.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Tachyon

[Cmdr JFarrington 0]

Right now, I'm not as impressed with Stargate Universe as I could be; the first few episodes have been mediocre. However, the amount of criticism it has received has, in my opinion, overrepresented the severity of its flaws, particularly in terms of atmosphere and aims. Concerns that it'll be an unworthy successor to BSG are valid, although I don't subscribe to the idea that it is somehow rip-off of BSG. I am more concerned with the quality of the show's storytelling and its ability to carve out another niche in the Stargate canon. For now, I'll wait and see.

 

Wow. Tach. That was 1882 words of impressive diagnostics. I'm not being facetious here, I sincerely admire you for taking a serious, critical look at a show that I dismissed completely because I saw it as nothing creative, merely a mishmash of ideas (not necessarily characters) from various other shows - much as I put down "Eragon" after a few chapters because it was LOTR meets StarWars meets Harry Potter.

 

Mind you, I have very little spare time and most of that spare time I choose to spend here where things are lively, creative, and interactive rather than staring at a boob-tube. But when I do stare at it I want a quality show to mesmerize my brain and turn it to mush.

 

Interesting thoughts, these, even though I'll wait for someone else to tell me it's worth watching before I go back to it.

 

And..uh..Kitteh. Am I that intimidating? And all this time I thought I was the number-one pushoverGM. :blink:

[STSF Precip 0]

Tachyon that was an impressive post. I give you props for putting such thought into the arguments and opinions of others.

 

I am still watching "Stargate Universe". I still feel a bit more needs to be explained about those Ancient Stones that allow a "swaped body link" to earth. Kroells helped me out with his post some..but these are in finite supply I presume.

 

The scale of "Destiny" herself is still unknown to me. I am not certain if this ship is the same size as the "Hammond" or much larger. If it is much larger...80 people have lots of exploring still to do.

 

One interesting deviation from "Voyager" is the fact the ship is in control of itself. Whether or not this is to continue has yet to be scene..but I find it a "wild card" for each episode. Where is Destiny taking herself next? She needs a lot of work!

 

So I will continue to watch...and comment...maybe warm up.

 

-Precip

[Tachyon 0]

I am still watching "Stargate Universe". I still feel a bit more needs to be explained about those Ancient Stones that allow a "swaped body link" to earth. Kroells helped me out with his post some..but these are in finite supply I presume.

As the season premiere showed us, Rush took along two, so a maximum of two people may "return" to Earth at any one time. We saw that when Young and Chloe Armstrong went back simultaneously. As far as we know, the each stone is linked to only one particular mate, so even if they discover more somewhere on Destiny, it's unlikely they'd be able to use them to communicate with Earth. I wouldn't put it past the writers to conjure up an alternative method of communication in the next few seasons should it become necessary. For now, however, the stones work pretty well. They're consistent with the way the Stargate universe works, and they provide interesting moral dimensions when it comes to communicating with Earth . . . since people are literally exchanging bodies.

 

This week's episode was probably the best so far. I realize that's not saying much! However, it actually managed to be interesting without being overwrought, and if the show can keep this up for most of the season, it may actually be worth watching.

 

The episode picks up where last week left off, with the Destiny on a direct course for the sun in this solar system where it dropped out of FTL. With no way to divert the ship, it looks like everyone on board is doomed, except for the lucky 15 people who can fit aboard a shuttle and make a run for the system's possibly habitable planet.

 

I don't think it's a spoiler to say that the Destiny survives (as it would be a rather short series if that wasn't the case). It does, as does the crew. I saw the how/why of that survival coming (and judging from the comments scattered across the Internet, I was far from the only one). That isn't a complaint; I enjoy it when a show's universe is consistent enough to let fans make predictions like this.

 

We finally get to see Rush and Young, as well as Rush and Eli (aka "Math Boy"), work together without bickering (much). Rush is much . . . calmer . . . now that he's off the caffeine. And then there was that final scene, where Young casts aspersions on Rush's motivations. I thought that was done very well, subtle but still with enough presence to make the audience consider that possibility. It also alleviates the danger of suddenly turning this fractious crew into a completely unified entity. They've survived certain death together now, but there's still room for conflict.

 

It would be nice to see more than three-minute scenes of Camille Wray (obviously that's going to happen sometime this season, but the sooner the better). I can't help but feel like this is one aspect of Stargate Universe that continues to lag . . . it fails to fully utilize its characters in a very obvious way. Once again, this entire show happened to the characters; they actually did very little. That's not very interesting television, and we need some character-empowerment soon. Finally, I hope the rest of the season isn't "a threat to our survival a week" format. I'm not ready to see the struggle for survival motif end quite yet. What I would like to see is some more multi-faceted storytelling revolving around this problem. Instead of "we're running out of air," "we're running out of power," "we're running out of TV dinners," I need something more subtle . . . more sinister.

[Chirakis 1]

The "swapping stones" were introduced in SG-1. The following, taken from the Stargate Wikipedia, explains the stones more fully and gives the connection between the original stones and their present incarnation in Universe.

 

Communication device with stones

A dome-shaped device with a blue crystal spire designed to facilitate communications across vast distances. The device works in tandem with palm-sized oval stones. When inserted into one of twelve slots on the base, the stones allow the user's mind to take over the body of whoever last touched the stones on the other end, provided someone with the ATA gene activated them.^[21] The reverse is also true if those on the receiving end make use of a similar device. The device draws its power from subspace (the same way a ZPM does), and works seamlessly even when communicating over billions of light-years apart.

 

In addition to their regular function, two communications stones can form a psychic link between the last two people that used them. SG-1 retrieved one of these stones from the same planet where the quantum mirror was discovered. The stone was kept in Daniel Jackson's lab and inadvertently activated by Jack O'Neill. Another stone was purchased at a yard sale by Joe Spencer, a barber from Indiana, who was then able to see O'Neill's memories as he recalled them while writing his mission reports.^[65]

 

One of these devices was discovered under Glastonbury Tor, and it was subsequently used by Dr. Jackson and Vala. It transported their minds to the Ori galaxy into the bodies of a married couple, Harrid and Sallis.^[21] Their minds were sent back by a similar device, but the transfer was cut short by a Prior. Col. Mitchell and Teal'c eventually destroyed it by throwing it into the Stargate's unstable vortex, bringing Daniel and Vala back.^[66] Several months later, Vala Mal Doran contacted the SGC from the Ori Galaxy using the device thanks to the Ori underground resistance, and warned SG-1 about the nearing Ori invasion of the Milky Way. However, the link was cut by her husband Tomin.^[67] Another communication device was found in the Pegasus galaxy, switching Dr. Keller's mind with that of a thief. Both Keller and the thief were able to use each other's bodies despite the lack of a second device. Unable to find any shut-down switch, Ronon shoots it to break the link.

 

In Stargate Universe, Stargate Command has apparently devised a more compact version of the communication device. This version is a boxed-shaped device with room for five stones in an 'X' formation. The stones are simply placed on the flat panel of the device to activate it. The team aboard the Destiny has access to one, as does Stargate Command. Dr. Nicholas Rush uses it to take over the body of Dr. Bill Lee at the SGC, who had been waiting by the device. Later on, Col. Young and Chloe Armstrong use it to trade places with Col. Telford and a doctor, respectively, demonstrating that the transfer works both ways. Stones must be placed on both devices for a transfer to occur, as shown when Young had to get the doctor to activate a second stone for Chloe to switch with her.

[STSF Precip 0]

Thanks for the heads up on the Stones guys. I take it these things have an unlimited capability of use. Hopefully other characters will get to use them.

 

The Shuttle scenes did not help me much with Destiny's size. I liked the idea of Eli's "Keno" photo of Destiny revealing the crew truely did not know what the ship looked like .

 

Destiny has enormous shield strength to replenish herself the way she did. I'll remember that.

 

A good episode. The Special FX shots of Destiny and the shuttle are totally Unlike anything I recall from SG-1 and SG Atlantis. Heck it almost looks like ZOIC's work from BSG. Oops another comparison there!

 

Precip

 

-Still watching

[Leila Kalomi 0]

Wow, Tach, thanks for that great post. I'm starting to feel kinder about the series.

[Cmdr Ba'alyo 0]

I've given the series a chance since my initial estimation of the pilot as dull and derivative, although I still think that episode was both.

 

The first post-pilot episode (actually like part-three of three) was the desert one. Everybody's got to do a hiking through the desert episode ("Go on without me!"), and this one wasn't too bad. Kudos for Eli, I'm liking his character despite the derivative origins. Not as over-the-top, out of place humor as (and I know I'll catch flak for this) O'Neill often displayed.

 

Our DVR missed the second episode, so I had to catch it and the third back-to-back the following week, which was actually pretty good. I agree with Tachyon and didn't like the unpleasant, unprofessional behavior of Rush - even if you want to say he was impaired, it's hard to justify keeping everyone out of the loop and putting all your intellectual eggs in one basket. Megalomanic much? Not a bad episode, especially after I thought about how they seem to be doing one of the derivative ideas much better than the source (more on that in a moment).

 

The third episode was them plunging toward the sun, the lottery, and such. Good episode. Tachyon correctly cites that the episode was based on the bad literary device of having things just happen to the characters, yet I still thought this was the most exciting. The characters wrestled with life-and-death choices, what to do on their last day, making their peace, etc. Good character development. OK, so I was largely jazzed by their correct use of orbital mechanics and astronomy - the woman who described how knowing the star's size and temperature would let them extrapolate the probable planetary environments (close-in, tidally locked, wind blown), that was real science. Somebody did their homework, 'cause it was very accurate.

 

I'm not ready to see the struggle for survival motif end quite yet.

OK, so other people have made the Voyager connection, which for older folks had it own Lost in Space connection. One thing that the Voyager producers originally claimed was that they'd have to deal with not having a starbase around, taking damage, dealing with shortages. Aside from a few token problems or the needed resource of the week, this never happened on Voyager. Shuttles were magically restocked. The holodeck was always running (yes, I know, some sort of technobabbel "alternate power source" they couldn't use for anything else). Even the lost redshirts never seemed to reduce the overall crew numbers. (I loved how they never referred to their lost XO, helmswoman, and doctor from the pilot again.) And the captain seldom had to do without her replicated coffee. Things remained shiny and new. Although they've seemingly solved the energy problem on Stargate Universe (so can they dial back now?), they could still capitalize on the lost at sea motif - the need to repair things, to gather food, and trade with native species. I'm actually more worried that the communication stones, while internally consistent, keeps them in touch with Starfleet Command (whoops, mixing genres) too much. I mean, could Kirk have existed if he'd had Admirals telling him what to do all the time?

 

So, I'm still giving the series a shot. BSG's pilot was kind of downer, if I recall, but it got much. much better before it took that nose dive at the end.

[Leila Kalomi 0]

Yes, I'm tired of the communication stones. Someone needs to throw them into a kawoosh.

[Atragon9 0]

Okay, so after all this discussion, I went to Hulu and started watching it. It's not terrible, but it's not fantastic, either. I do like some of the non-SG Sci Fi references. Both obvious ones like calling the snow planet Hoth, and more esoteric ones like when Eli went visiting on Earth through the comm stones and used the name Philip Fry (Futurama, anyone?)

[STSF Precip 0]

Stoned.

 

Despite the added ability for character development, and communication from home; I tire of these ancient devices that have been used. Frankly I don't see how they can work...so far from home. Yes I am happy for their glitches, but are there really people willing to allow their bodies to be used by another's consciousness? I mean...c'mon....you got to have an inkling that one of these desperate souls on Destiny will want to spend the night with a lover during their "stone-trip". I think it's getting out of hand. Heck the Colonel commandeers another's body just to slug someone back on earth? It's just stretching normal human reasoning for me. Please have those bloody stones finally get out of range!

 

Character development can occur on Destiny...if you give it a shot.

 

I am not going to discuss the temporal "keno" episode right now. Too tired.

 

-Precip