Wrath of Khan? REALLY?

[Owen J. North 0]

In doing my research for these sims, I've started downloading and watching all the old original films. I'm not exactly doing them in order (since the first one won't seem to download, and I started with First Contact, because of specific info I wanted)... and I couldn't help but wonder why everybody says "Wrath of Khan" is the best of the TOS films. Honestly, I just don't get it. It wasn't BAD, per say... but I certainly didn't get the hype.

 

I was particularly disappointed by the "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" scene, since I've heard so much about what a great moment it was, how memorable it was, seen it quoted so many times... I was waiting, and waiting and... then, like a balloon when you let go of the end, my hopes deflated. THAT WAS IT? REALLY!?!?!

 

Now, I'm probably gonna spark a big debate here... and knowing my opinions, I'll probably stand alone in thinking so... but I really feel that following up this one with "The Search For Spock" just made it look even worse. I'm not a Trek expert, so I can't say much for how it handled the franchise... but, with a few glaring omissions (the Klingons WERE a tad on the lame side, and what the hell was their pet thing?) I found this to be an INFINITELY more enjoyable movie. The story was far more original (that's one "back from the dead" story I've never seen!), seeing them flying around space in leather jackets and the like was a nice break from convention (esp. since those new "everybody's red" uniforms were so terrible)... and truth be told, it was nice to see them use the main officers for everything FOR A REASON instead of going "we have a hundred or more people on this ship, but lets just send the ones who really matter", lol. I also, for the FIRST TIME had a legitimate sense of suspense from anything involving the TOS crew (wondering how Kirk was gonna get himself and Spock off the planet, though admittedly I wasn't a big fan of how they decided to do it. I had what I feel was a much better idea in mind).

 

Especially with this film (currently tied with First Contact in my mind the most enjoyable of the old ones) following so soon after, I don't understand why ANYBODY makes such a big deal about "Wrath Of Khan".

 

Now... dare I ask?

 

Thoughts, anyone?

Edited May 28, 2009 by Owen J. North

[Atragon9 0]

Just the fact that you have Christopher Lloyd (Jim Ignatowski from "Taxi" and Doc Brown from the "Back To The Future" trilogy) as a Klingon makes it very watchable. I have aklways thought "First Contact" was the best Trek film, myself.

[Kansas 0]

Opinions are going to be all over the place about this, totally, because everyone has a different film or films they enjoy out of the franchise.

 

My personal favorite out of the old films is the Undiscovered Country, yet The Final Frontier (not a good showing overall as one of the films - more TV movie then film) is the reason I became a Trek fan.

 

Wrath of Khan has the distinction of being the film that supposedly got the TOS movies "back on track", but after the sterile offering that was The Motion Picture, Khan did put the movies in a new direction thankfully. Wrath's a cool film, I can deal with it.

 

And say if you've read any number of opinions, articles, or interviews (old Trek book or magazines) with Khan producer Harve Bennett or director Nicholas Meyer or whoever else? Pretty much a common statement that the film was intended as a new direction, and lets go with Khan the villian from the TOS.

 

Khan was a classic villian from the past offering, and you cant go wrong with that formula.

 

Search for Spock is a kick azz film - I like it. Voyage Home is a great space adventure ... even though it's not exactly set in space.

 

As for the wrap/flap red tunic jacket verses the bomber type of uniform jacket - I like both, the bomber jackets rock out, and the flap red tunic are a classy styling that took the TOS films in a more naval tradition direction. Hell, anything is better then the "oh my gosh, the color has died" mono chromatic uniforms from the Motion Picture with the built in 70's style belt buckles.

 

Admiral Pikes uniform in Trek 2009 (at the end of film medal ceremony) is modeled straight off of TMP according to Memory Alpha, but at least the design is updated and didn't force me to gag reflex.

 

Out of all the 11 Trek films, my least favorites are:

 

The Motion Picture (Oooooo, ten minute torture fly by as we stare at the Enterprise. Kirk is a PO'd "I want my damn ship back" Admiral)

 

Nemesis (yes, Picard apparently you have a clone son of yourself, how convenient, and Data leaps across space to save the flippin' day)

 

Generations (the TNG cast was half dead/tired at this point after doing the series for seven years and it shows)

[Owen J. North 0]

Well, frankly, here's what I think of the only one's I've seen so far...

 

Wrath of Khan - watchable... but not all that great. I didn't have one legitimate emotional reaction to the whole thing. I might have to Spock dying, if I didn't know he was coming back (thanks to his older self appearing in the new one, and the title of the next movie.) But with that twist spoiled, I just really didn't see anything all that hype-worthy. I find it strange that this is the only one I'd heard about enough to know the title.

 

Search For Spock - Trek or not, this was just an awesome movie. The whole cell regeneration/advanced aging thing was simply genius, the whole idea of Klingons exploiting the machine as a weapon was just a brilliant plot twist... if only they'd slightly tweaked Kirk's way of getting himself and Spock up into the Klingon ship, this could borderline on being a perfect film... at least, in my mind. (Well, and maybe recast a couple roles to get slightly better actors).

 

The Voyage Home - This one was good... but in a completely different way. Where the last one was like, a good actionish/semi thriller.... Voyage seems to be intended more as a comedy (I mean, come on, the conversations with Spock using "the hell" in everything? Lowering the plexiglass into a cloaked ship? And OF COURSE Chekov was the only one who could have possibly been caught in a nuclear powered ship during those days, lol). It was good, but hard to compare to the others because of it's deliberate campiness.

 

First Contact - This is more what I expect from Trek. Still a good movie, but there's a certain unexpectedness to 'Search' that kinda pulls it up a little. I can't really decide which one I like more. This one has, in my mind, the better crew... obviously better effects, but I do like the story from 'Search' a bit more.

 

...Just finished the download on Generations, and The Motion Picture and Final Frontier are about half way.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Owen J. North

[Torre Ze'Rea 0]

I enjoyed greatly First Contact (borg queen. whooooowaaaaahh), The Wraith of Khan, and The Voyage Home.

 

The Motion Picture: I could never see Kirk as an admiral, but he got his flippin' ship back.

Wraith of Khan: I personally luved it. For one thing, it delved into Khan's character, who was an impressive character, even though I kinda wanted to smack 'im.

Search for Spock: Robin Curtis did a great job as Saavik (my dad disagrees with this heartily, lol), and Uhura locking that watch officer in a closet. Priceless.

Voyage Home: One word, whales.

Final Frontier: Didn't like it that much. Just bugged me.

The Undiscovered Country: Meh...

Generations: It was pretty good... not at what it could have been though

First Contact: mmm, mmm, mmm. So good.

Insurrection: I personally enjoyed it.

Nemesis: haven't seen it... doubt I ever will.

[Jorahl 0]

The Motion Picture: Like watching a birth, not always pretty but it got Trek living again.

 

Wrath of Khan: Personally, one of my favs...but I have no problem with anyone thinking less of it.

 

Search for Spock: This one has grown on me as times gone by.

 

Voyage Home: Fun, just as simple as that. It was fun.

 

Final Frontier: ARGH!!!! Any movie can be saved or killed in editing and this one was done by blind chimps! And visually it just wasn't pretty in any possible way.

 

Undiscovered Country: Another Fav.

 

Generations: Everything the Enterprise-D went through and a beat up old Klingon Bird of Prey destroys Starfleets flagship. Humph.

 

First Contact: Well, it's good.... but I have never liked the new direction they took the Borg in from this point onward. Before they cared little about people and just wanted to sample all technology. They were a true hive mind, with the thoughts of each being the thoughts of all. Assimilating Picard seemed like a long, hard process which they'd never done before...they just bred their own and added the tech as they grew. First Contact turned them into something outta a B zombie movie (though I do like zombie movies). If ya get bit you'll turn into one! They even looked like zombies. The sterile white faces were changed to sickly gooey look of decay. They even had their own necromancer leader in the Borg Queen.

 

Insurrection: They gave up at this point trying to find a good excuse for getting Worf back on the ship. They gave up the idealistic view of the Federation. They gave up on sanity in a few scenes. But it still was okay to watch.

 

Nemisis: Maybe it's because I wasn't expecting the Romulans to be portrayed any better than they had up to then but I didn't mind this one that much. OH, the director hadn't a clue what he was doing with the cast and the whole Data/B4 thing should have been left on the cutting room floor. But I actually liked the Picard/Shinzon thing. I think I've also rewritten this movie in my head enough times that my versions have grown on me therefor I give the original a little slack.

[Tachyon 0]

I'm not going to get into a discussion of which Trek film is the "best" in my opinion--my favourites tend to change with my mood. However, I did thoroughly enjoy The Wrath of Khan.

 

I was particularly disappointed by the "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" scene, since I've heard so much about what a great moment it was, how memorable it was, seen it quoted so many times... I was waiting, and waiting and... then, like a balloon when you let go of the end, my hopes deflated. THAT WAS IT? REALLY!?!?!

This moment, as far as I know, is more infamous than it is "great." As the enormity of Khan's nefarious actions sink in, one would expect this moment to be truly breathtaking--will James T. Kirk actually lose? Then suddenly we get Kirk screaming into the communicator ... and the moment falls flat. It's fun to parody.

 

Now, I'm probably gonna spark a big debate here... and knowing my opinions, I'll probably stand alone in thinking so... but I really feel that following up this one with "The Search For Spock" just made it look even worse. I'm not a Trek expert, so I can't say much for how it handled the franchise... but, with a few glaring omissions (the Klingons WERE a tad on the lame side, and what the hell was their pet thing?) I found this to be an INFINITELY more enjoyable movie.

I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the general idea to improve the franchise with each successive film? When comparing the movies to each other ... I doubt anyone has ever intentionally set out to make a sequel that's worse than the original. That would just be silly.

 

I don't understand why ANYBODY makes such a big deal about "Wrath Of Khan".

Most people will answer this by extolling the villainy of Ricardo Montalban as Khan Singh--and they'd be right. Bringing back Khan was a stroke of genius; he's a very Shakespearean antagonist, and Star Trek has deep ties with Shakespeare.

 

Khan is, in essence, the "anti-Kirk." His personal connection to the protagonist makes the stakes higher. That's part of the reason why the Borg worked well as villains in First Contact--they brought out a side of Picard that we seldom saw, one that almost consumed him. Likewise, Khan wants revenge against Kirk, and this passion consumes him (and is ultimately part of his own undoing). He doesn't care about political intrigue or profit--all he wants is to kill Kirk. His wife is dead, his world destroyed, so he has nothing to lose. And that makes him the most dangerous foe Kirk has ever faced.

 

I might have to Spock dying, if I didn't know he was coming back

Maybe I'm just inured to spoilers these days, but I never let my knowledge of future events compromise my enjoyment of whatever's happening on screen at the moment. After all, Death Is Cheap. So I just bundle a dose of temporary amnesia into my suspension of disbelief package, and I'm golden.

 

Spock's sacrifice, regardless of the permanence of his death, was moving because of its significance to Kirk. All these years, and Kirk has never lost, never faced a no-win scenario. Yet even though he manages to defeat Khan, his best friend dies in the process--and for once he's truly lost something. This is no longer the whimsical, wrap-around uniformed Kirk from the upbeat epilogues in the original series: this is a man who has suddenly had his own mortality thrust into his face as a brutal reminder that he is not invincible. The Wrath of Khan signals the beginning of rough times for Kirk. He loses Spock, then in the next film he loses his son and his ship. Thus, while I understand that Spock's subsequent resurrection belies the emotional impact of it, his death is still quite important thematically.

 

It's fine if one prefers other Star Trek films over The Wrath of Khan, of course. Hopefully, however, this should enlighten you as to why some number The Wrath of Khan among their favourites.

[knlwtchr 0]

The Motion Picture: Since I haven't seen this movie over and over, like I have the others, I probably don't appreciate it the same. But, I have seen it and it just didn't impress me like the others did.

 

The Wrath of Kahn: I really liked Kahn, but I dont know if it was my favorite, which seems to be the consensus here. I asked my husband which movie he liked best, and he said Kahn was his favorite, too. There were some good fight scenes and, since I was raised by my father, I like good fight scenes in my sci-fi movies (thought Star Trek is the only sci-fi I watch, besides Enemy Mine).

 

The Search for Spock: I don't know, I really like Leonard Nimoy and the Actors who played his parents (Mark Lenard, especially), but this movie just didn't do much for me. It was OK.

 

The Voyage Home: I think Home was my favorite of the TOS line of movies. Nimoy was killing me and I loved the interactions with the people of San Francisco. The other actors were killing me too, especially "Noo-clee-ah We-sselz!" It was just a lot more light hearted and fun, and I loved the ideas of truly saving the world while saving a species from extinction. The music was a lot funner, too.

 

The Final Frontier: I honestly don't remember Frontier as well, probably because, like TMP, I haven't seen it nearly as many times as the others. Was that the one where they went to the end of the Universe to see God or some entity claiming to be a god? If so, I probably dont remember it because I blocked it out of my memory.

 

The Undiscovered Country: I wasn't crazy about Country. I dont like Iman, is that her name? Or the idea of going to prison. It just didn't keep me interested.

 

Generations: I anticipated Generations because I was so sad to see TNG go. I love the saucer crash scene and the ideas of re-writing your past due to regrets. Or just going back in time and staying there forever. What a great thought!

 

First Contact: Probably my favorite of the TNG movie line. The Queen was just icky and I loved the fight scenes when the fleet arrived. Great flick!

 

Insurrection: Bleh. Kinda boring. Another one I haven't really seen over and over. But, there's a reason for that.

 

Nemesis: No, no, no, totally wrong. Too dark, to icky, not enough fighting going on. The idea of Picard's son was just off. We needed more space fight scenes. Definitely not nearly as good as it could have been.

 

So, there you have it, the Knollwatcher's two cents. =0] (Not worth much, is it?)

[V'Roy 0]

I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the general idea to improve the franchise with each successive film? When comparing the movies to each other ... I doubt anyone has ever intentionally set out to make a sequel that's worse than the original. That would just be silly.

 

[Kansas 0]

VR does have a valid point there, with visual aid even, regarding sequels.

[will_marx 0]

VR does have a valid point there, with visual aid even, regarding sequels.

 

And let's not forget JAWS: 3D

and JAWS: THE REVENGE

[V'Roy 0]

VR does have a valid point there, with visual aid even, regarding sequels.

We would be better calling it "Highlander 2 - There Should Have Been Only 1"

 

I liked the 3rd one, the TV series, even Endgame which almost everyone else hated, but that 2nd one was just out of place.