Star Trek Film (2009)

[Aliana Lucindak 0]

Another irony was the fact that this time around, it was Spock who got the girl....actually had the girl all along....not the handsome and dashing James T. Kirk. Personally, I can't wait to see how this develops. And I'm still surprised by my reaction to the whole thing.

And with Spock/Uhuru becoming an item: sure, why not! Kirk didn't get the girl for a change. About time. :-P

I always liked Spock better. Might have been because he quirked one of his eyebrows in most episodes and almost every movie. Though the hair cut o.o. All vulcans have it, but its still 2nd place in my list of bad hair cuts. Lost it only to a buzz cut.

[Allen Armstrong 0]

I've been doing something thinking about this whole time travel thing and I got to wondering. How was it that the Enterprise-E was able to get back to it's own timeline in First Contact? If the very action of going back in time creates a new time line, and alternate universe, then how was that possible? Is it that they were able to go back to their present because they were always a part of their past? That question got me to wondering this: What if the timeline we all know and love is actually an alternate timeline, created by the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: First Contact? We know that Zephram Cochrane was motivated by money. He wanted to get rich. He was flying the Pheonix for his own personal goals. So, in the "mirror universe" he shoots the Vulcans that land on earth and steal their ship and use their technology for himself, thus beginning the Imperial Starfleet. Would that have been what happened, had the Borg not gone back in time, forcing the Enterprise to follow and thus changing history, or, rather, becoming a part of it? Would Cochrane, not having been told that he must usher in a new era of peace and prosperity for mankind, have fired on the vulcans? Hmmm...

[Sorehl 0]

Would Cochrane, not having been told that he must usher in a new era of peace and prosperity for mankind, have fired on the vulcans? Hmmm...

This is the divergence point that begins the ENT episode "Through a Mirror Darkly" - one of the really outstanding Enterprise episodes of their final season.

[Jorahl 0]

I've been doing something thinking about this whole time travel thing and I got to wondering. How was it that the Enterprise-E was able to get back to it's own timeline in First Contact? If the very action of going back in time creates a new time line, and alternate universe, then how was that possible? Is it that they were able to go back to their present because they were always a part of their past? That question got me to wondering this: What if the timeline we all know and love is actually an alternate timeline, created by the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: First Contact? We know that Zephram Cochrane was motivated by money. He wanted to get rich. He was flying the Pheonix for his own personal goals. So, in the "mirror universe" he shoots the Vulcans that land on earth and steal their ship and use their technology for himself, thus beginning the Imperial Starfleet. Would that have been what happened, had the Borg not gone back in time, forcing the Enterprise to follow and thus changing history, or, rather, becoming a part of it? Would Cochrane, not having been told that he must usher in a new era of peace and prosperity for mankind, have fired on the vulcans? Hmmm...

 

hehe, that even got my head spinning. Fun stuff. So, the mirror universe is the original one but the events of First Contact created the kinder gentler Federation we know. That's a nifty idea though there's a paradox in that the alternate reality (the friendly-verse) created itself by influencing the past.

[John_Anderson 0]

I've been doing something thinking about this whole time travel thing and I got to wondering. How was it that the Enterprise-E was able to get back to it's own timeline in First Contact? If the very action of going back in time creates a new time line, and alternate universe, then how was that possible? Is it that they were able to go back to their present because they were always a part of their past? That question got me to wondering this: What if the timeline we all know and love is actually an alternate timeline, created by the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: First Contact? We know that Zephram Cochrane was motivated by money. He wanted to get rich. He was flying the Pheonix for his own personal goals. So, in the "mirror universe" he shoots the Vulcans that land on earth and steal their ship and use their technology for himself, thus beginning the Imperial Starfleet. Would that have been what happened, had the Borg not gone back in time, forcing the Enterprise to follow and thus changing history, or, rather, becoming a part of it? Would Cochrane, not having been told that he must usher in a new era of peace and prosperity for mankind, have fired on the vulcans? Hmmm...

 

 

Well, the easy answer for this is that the Enterprise-E had always gone back in time after the second Borg attack on Earth to prevent the Borg from assimilating a 21st century Earth.

 

In the mirror universe though, we could simply assume that the Borg had never attacked Cochrane before his warp flight, and that could have resulted in Cochrane never meeting Picard and the Enterprise crew. That could also result in Cochrane taking a shotgun to the Vulcan's and stealing their ship, starting the Earth Empire, the leading major event in that universe that lead to the alternate time line... or Cochrane was really a jerk in the end, and all he cared about was money.

 

Either way, Picard and crew were always meant to help Cochrane in his warp flight in their time line. They just never knew it.

[Aliana Lucindak 0]

Well, the things is, Cochrane might have originally been in it only for money, and not considered the idea of first contact of any kind. However, confronted with it, he might have chosen to go with meeting them, instead of stealing their ship.

[DarkMonkey 0]

Seeing it for the third time allowed me to divert some of my attention to the theatre around me. This movie has been out for two weeks, and it's still being shown on two screens, with full theatres and lines, which is impressive on it's own. But what struck me most is how diverse the audience was. I saw all sorts; from children who couldn't tell a phaser from a squirt gun, to their parents who grew up on Picard-flavored justice, all the way up to the folk who've been with it since the beginning. It was rather touching.

"FIRE EVERYTHING!" remains my favorite though, both the quote and the scene containing it.

[V'Roy 0]

Hey, I've said over and over again that what we saw at the begining of In A Mirror, Darkly was the way First Contact was supposed to happen, and would have happened had not Picard and crew interfered. The "natural" timeline is the Mirror Universe one and it is the rest of Trek that is in an altered timeline. The only thing that suggests otherwise is an ENT-era space suit on the moon in place of the Neil Armstrong one, but even then that could be explained by a later astronaut replacing the US flag with a Terran Empire one. That would certainly be characteristic of the Empire to do. (The producers even said at a later point they were simply looking for a graphic of someone putting the Terran Empire flag up and just had a shot of an ENT-era EVA suit handy.)

 

Perhaps it is the *method* of time travel that causes a new timeline to emerge. In most instances whenever someone goes back (or forward) in Trek up to now it has always been a deliberate act on someone's part. It was only when it happened accidently that a new timeline was created.

[Arch Angel 0]

:: Looks at the universial Omnipentent being..."" Shudders " and prays that all be within the great design of the making.

[Leila Kalomi 0]

Seeing it for the third time allowed me to divert some of my attention to the theatre around me. This movie has been out for two weeks, and it's still being shown on two screens, with full theatres and lines, which is impressive on it's own. But what struck me most is how diverse the audience was. I saw all sorts; from children who couldn't tell a phaser from a squirt gun, to their parents who grew up on Picard-flavored justice, all the way up to the folk who've been with it since the beginning. It was rather touching.

"FIRE EVERYTHING!" remains my favorite though, both the quote and the scene containing it.

 

I am seriously amazed that I know a 6-year old that can tell a original series Romulan from a Vulcan.

[Travis Kroells 0]

Hey, I've said over and over again that what we saw at the begining of In A Mirror, Darkly was the way First Contact was supposed to happen, and would have happened had not Picard and crew interfered.

 

I might be completely hallucinating this memory, but I swear I heard it mentioned on one of the series that Empire existed before First Contact, that from waring nations rose a single global empire, and that acquiring the Vulcan ship only allowed them to spring into space. Now, as I'm recalling I also remember someone making a mention of Mirror Shakespeare being very similar to his regular counterpart...or something.

[V'Roy 0]

I might be completely hallucinating this memory, but I swear I heard it mentioned on one of the series that Empire existed before First Contact, that from waring nations rose a single global empire, and that acquiring the Vulcan ship only allowed them to spring into space. Now, as I'm recalling I also remember someone making a mention of Mirror Shakespeare being very similar to his regular counterpart...or something.

That was from In a Mirror, Darkly (ENT). However, Phlox was *speculating* that the Empire existed prior to First Contact.

 

He did say that Shakespeare was similar in both universes, but since Shakespeare could also be Klingon I tend to doubt the authenticity of this.

Edited May 25, 2009 by V'Roy

[Shane 0]

So is this a timeline thread or one about the ST11?

[Kansas 0]

So is this a timeline thread or one about the ST11?

 

This sort of movie spoiler discussion, about a film that starts an alternate timeline, will always have parties that wing towards the timeline stuff and keep at the hashing and re-hashing of theory.

[Torre Ze'Rea 0]

Yeah, it's just our way. Plus, its basically, the plotline.

[Shane 0]

What did yal think of the Kelvins single nacelle? I know this has been a big discussion on other ships in cannon. To me it looked thicker than the nacelles of other ships in the Enterprises fleet, so they might have just combined two small nacelles.

[Jorahl 0]

What did yal think of the Kelvins single nacelle? I know this has been a big discussion on other ships in cannon. To me it looked thicker than the nacelles of other ships in the Enterprises fleet, so they might have just combined two small nacelles.

 

I've always liked the single nacelle non-canon ships like the Nelson and/or Hermes class. As many kitbash ships fans have made over the years I was surprised at what they showed in the movie. Not that you got a good look at anything with it bouncing across the screen in the filming style used but the Kelvin was interesting and some of the ships seen as the "fleet" moved out for Vulcan were pretty cool looking.

[V'Roy 0]

I always thought the single nacelle idea was just dumb. You can generate a warp field with just one, but what if something happens to it? You have no backup. Plus it just looks weird.

[Leila Kalomi 0]

I always thought the single nacelle idea was just dumb. You can generate a warp field with just one, but what if something happens to it? You have no backup. Plus it just looks weird.

 

Oh, I don't know, it never seems like they use one for backup anyways. They both go at once. And looking weird is a matter of opinion. I liked it.

[Aliana Lucindak 0]

V'Roy> They don't really have backup nacelles. If they had two, 3, 4, any number, they would have to use them all at the same time, or the ship could become unbalanced.

[V'Roy 0]

V'Roy> They don't really have backup nacelles. If they had two, 3, 4, any number, they would have to use them all at the same time, or the ship could become unbalanced.

Why is balance important in a zero-gravity environment? Being symetrical isn't that important in the space traveling function. Look at the Breen ships or the Millenium Falcon. They do all right without "balance".

[DarkMonkey 0]

Unbalanced as in the warp field destabilizes and rips the ship apart in transit. And even in zero-g, inertia is a property of matter.

[STSF Precip 0]

Yes I believe Aliana Lucindak was referring to the ship's warp field becoming unbalanced with the loss of a Nacelle.

I want to say (I might be wrong), that on "Enterprise" they managed to maintain warp at a much slower speed with just one Nacelle operating..but it required a repair job to keep her going.

 

Now, one would think that a Single Nacelle vessel would just be used on short missions. If the nacelle failed, help would be nearby. However, The Kelvin sure was a big ship for short mission. I got the impression she wasn't on one in the movie.

 

-Precip

[V'Roy 0]

It is hard to compare starship size without comparing it to something of known size, like a starship we are already familiar with. And we really don't know what mission the Kelvin was on before Nero appeared.

[Kansas 0]

It is hard to compare starship size without comparing it to something of known size, like a starship we are already familiar with. And we really don't know what mission the Kelvin was on before Nero appeared.

 

Kelvin mission and nacelles:

 

I have a theory about the Kelvin and it's mission.

 

The Kelvin captain (Robua - sp?) wore a blue colored tunic, while his second in command (I assume he was second in command, what with being given the battlefield captaincy) George Kirk wore gold. Taking that into account, with the CO sporting the blue sciences, the Kelvin might have been a science/exploratory ship?

 

This *could* explain the nacelle thing as well; if it truely is a sciences ship, and isn't one of the "sports car warships" of the Fleet, the Kelvin might not have a need for dual nacelles.

 

Now granted, another member of the Kelvin bridge crew wore what looks to me like dark gray or brown colored tunic, and this color/department remains a mystery. When the film shoots ahead to the Enterprise launch, everyone is in the classic Gold/Blue/Red uni tunics, so it's possible the colors were all overhauled by Fleet command or something like that.

 

Check out that ship:

 

Now, a ship question to throw out there for all the ship lovers - Hey Precip! I'm lookin' at ya! :-D

 

In the scene were all the ships are scrambling to warp away from the Earth station dock, to the left hand side of the screen, there is a starship that to me at a glance (it's only on screen for two seconds, if that) looks like a cross between an Akira class and a Prometheus class, with four nacelles? Any theories? Anyone find the class of ship anywhere official?

 

I'm not normally into ship class, but this Akira/Prometheus hybrid looking ship or whatever has my curiosity up.

 

Holiday Weekend:

 

According to comcast/yahoo articles, the Trek 2009 film has now made $191 million, and has whooshed past Angels and Demons for the third place highest grossing film of the Memorial weekend.

 

Night at the Museum was the highest grossing (my opinion is this Stiller film won't have the chops to stay on - it looks a bit assinine, right up there with the upcoming Land of the Lost remake) film this weekend, and it would also seem that Terminator: Salvation is falling a bit short as an intended sci fi blockbuster for its release weekend.