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Atragon9

Star Trek Film (2009)

292 posts in this topic

Gripes:

 

There were aspects of the movie that I liked, and aspects I didn't like. I could have done without Vulcan going Boom, or Romulus. Amanda's death was pointless. But, it wasn't the "real" Amanda, and it wasn't the "real" planets, know what I'm saying?

 

The New Old School:

 

This is Trek, and we all know that there are going to be probably Romulan and definitely Vulcan survivors, I mean come on. Two established canon character races are not going to be completely wiped out, because TOS and this Alternate Timeline TOS are still going to exist side by side in our minds and the minds of these new directors and producers movers and shakers of this Trek era.

 

As an old school fan I have been satiated, contented even. If any new fans hop on board, hey, go for it and welcome to the club.

 

Chocolate Cake:

 

This current Trek incarnation is the best of all worlds, in my general opinion. We can have our cake and eat it too, or completely ignore the developments in the Alternate Timeline Trek.

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It was a complete reboot and it was necessary in order for Trek to survive.

 

I don't agree with Abrams about that -- but that's a whole other thread. I do think the reboot-ness of the film is clear, meaning that attempting to integrate it smoothly with 40 years of canon is rather like time travel -- it'll give you nosebleeds.

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Except the entire point of doing a reboot of the franchise is so that they don't have to deal with 40 years of canon. They even say, right in the movie 'alternate timeline, we can't assume it plays out the same.' History, as our characters know it, changed, irrevocably.

 

Put another way, the history established in most games is that in which Vulcan didn't explode in 2258, nor was there a whole bit with, you know, Pike only captaining the Enterprise for all of six hours. This movie changed history so that the writers could do whatever they darned well pleased from here on out and new people coming in don't need to know 40 years of established trek lore to get into the series.

I totally concur.

 

But I do think Fred has a point that isn't neatly waved away by the the alternate timeline wand: The events Spock "Prime" described about the supernova and the destruction of Romulus are presumed to have happened in the classic "original" timeline - or at least the timeline in a couple of years. Certainly the film meant for the elder Spock to be "our" Spock. Even if an STSF sim continues on as if the 2358 events of the film simply happened "elsewhere", they probably need to clarify if they intend to include the supernova and its effects as part of their upcoming canon. Or at least, be ready to.

 

I think I know where Agincourt and Talon stand on this (a'gin it), but it's something the host team for each sim should think about and eventually let their players know. Which is one reason I know it's being talked through on the Host Boards.

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First off, I loved it. It worked for me. My husband and I walked out of the show discussing practically every nuance that has been discussed here in this thread. But the greatest moment was listening to a group of teenage boys. One boy said, " My dad always watched that Star Trek crap, but if they are anything like this movie, I'll watch them now!"

 

We smiled so big! I think that is exactly why this movie works so well. We were able to see baby Trekkors being born last night.

 

 

Ohhhhhhh, and to the earlier comment about that you should see it in a theatre full of Trekkors, for all the stated reasons. (I just have to share this)

 

We were at a sold out show in Uptown Whittier. After sitting in the theatre for almost 45 minutes, the movie still hadn't started. Surrounded by obvious die-hard fans as ourselves comments flew........"Set phasers to kill..............Arm the topedoes............." The best one.."I'm a doctor, not a projectionist, Damnit!"

 

Many of our commanding officers, kept going out to the manager to find out what the delay was. Finally, my husband came back in, and just announced that the movie apparently is still "downloading" (did you know they download movies, I didn't) and management was just giving attitude. "Set a course for the Regal, warp factor 10!" He shouted. Mass exodus. Everyone getting their money back, and a huge caravan driving to the neighboring town. It was like all of Starfleet racing towards the neutral zone!

 

It so added to the night.

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Oooooh, it was SO pretty, and I LOVED it!

 

Sure, people will gripe about Vulcan being blowed up/imploded and two Spocks together at the same time, etc., etc., but since it is an alternate reality, it fit, it really did. The writers were faced with a huge task and figured out how to get Kirk to Captain and Spock to XO and Pike off the ship and all the others in place, it was marvelous. Here is my only pick...

 

Orion "slave girl" as a Starfleet cadet?! How could anyone concentrate in class - or on the same ship as them? It would definitely take more willpower than the typical Alpha Male (or Alpha Female, for that matter) can muster! "Lt., Fire all... ooooohhh, you're looking nice today."

 

Heh-heh, yeah, yummy film, time to go back for seconds!

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::sigh:: Well, this is the second time in as many months that I seem to be the only person who *didn't* like a major science fiction event (the other one being the Battlestar Galactica series finale).

Actually, I didn't like the BSG finale at all - so you're not alone there - but I wasn't disappointed in the new Trek movie.

 

That said, I do have some critical thoughts on the movie, despite finding it very entertaining. But I'll share those later - no sense diluting the warm euphoric glow of having a well-received addition to the franchise. The actors and characterizations were very well done, with the stand-out performance of Urban as McCoy. It wasn't a particularly cerebral or scientifically-strong plot and it wasn't a story "of hope and cooperation" that the media is gushing about, but it was a great ride with some touchingly funny moments.

 

Still, let's hope the next movie writer realizes the transporter isn't supposed to be an interplanetary travel medium.

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Hey there,

 

I actually have to wonder something though. Scotty didn't have that equation in TOS for the transporter. "Transwarp beaming" is something they hadn't done previously. I'm wondering...was that in fact an equation Scotty finished in the TNG/DS9 timeframe? Just an interesting thought. ;)

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I actually have to wonder something though. Scotty didn't have that equation in TOS for the transporter. "Transwarp beaming" is something they hadn't done previously. I'm wondering...was that in fact an equation Scotty finished in the TNG/DS9 timeframe? Just an interesting thought. ;)

To my knowledge, porous though it may be, in all of Trekdom we've never seen a single incidence of a person beaming from a stationary planet to a ship at warp - especially not one that left the system hours earlier (long enough to walk 14km on a blizzard-like world).

 

There's two cases I would cite against transporter use as we saw in the recent move. (I'll happily recant if someone can find a counter-incident). TNG: Best of Both Worlds said it was necessary to "match warp speed" for beaming between two ships travelling at warp. TNG: The Schizoid Man dictated that the Enterprise-D had to drop from warp just long enough to beam down an Away Team and go back to warp, resulting in the team having a brief sensation of beaming into solid matter.

 

As for Federation transporter range, this has been limited to very short-ranges (40000km is often referenced), hence the frequent plot device of needing to get within transporter range even when a planet was visible. (For comparison, the distance from Earth to its moon is 300,000km.) Notable exceptions include the Dominion, which demonstrated they could transport a person with a homing device up to distances of three light years (DS9: Covenant), and the Ferengi, who used a subspace transporter to beam from light years away, through Enterprise-D shields, with virtually no trace. Significantly, the latter was never mentioned again - since it makes defending one's starship almost impossible. Both were 100 years later than the film, although Spock Prime may have learned similar methods (somehow involving Scotty) and simply ignored the Temporal Prime Directive.

 

Transwarp beaming has never been referenced previously in any incarnation of Trek, past or future, but may simply have been referenced by some other name.

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I totally concur.

 

But I do think Fred has a point that isn't neatly waved away by the the alternate timeline wand: The events Spock "Prime" described about the supernova and the destruction of Romulus are presumed to have happened in the classic "original" timeline - or at least the timeline in a couple of years. Certainly the film meant for the elder Spock to be "our" Spock. Even if an STSF sim continues on as if the 2358 events of the film simply happened "elsewhere", they probably need to clarify if they intend to include the supernova and its effects as part of their upcoming canon. Or at least, be ready to.

 

I think I know where Agincourt and Talon stand on this (a'gin it), but it's something the host team for each sim should think about and eventually let their players know. Which is one reason I know it's being talked through on the Host Boards.

 

Well those events , like Romulus being destroyed, happen many years after the events of Nemesis. So sims like Agincourt and Talon can continue on as if those events haven't happened yet. Of course, going to back to some of the things I mentioned earlier, I'd be curious to see some of the GM's try to incorporate it into the sims.

 

And to be honest I think that could add some new interest to those sims, or maybe even a new sim that ties into those events. It really just open a lot of new doors that could attract a lot of those newer people who will be stumbling across the sims out of curiosity after watching the new movie.

 

Of course, thats just my 2 cents.

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Well those events , like Romulus being destroyed, happen many years after the events of Nemesis. So sims like Agincourt and Talon can continue on as if those events haven't happened yet. Of course, going to back to some of the things I mentioned earlier, I'd be curious to see some of the GM's try to incorporate it into the sims.

 

And to be honest I think that could add some new interest to those sims, or maybe even a new sim that ties into those events. It really just open a lot of new doors that could attract a lot of those newer people who will be stumbling across the sims out of curiosity after watching the new movie.

 

Of course, thats just my 2 cents.

 

I wouldn't presume to speak for Harper and Kansas, but given what I know about the foundations of the Agincourt sim, I think it would be impossible to incorporate events from the Trek reboot into that particular sim. Agincourt is set in the late 2390s, 20+ years after the end of Nemesis. Most of the major races, including Romulans, were woven into the fabric of the imagined future. No more Romulus? Yeah, that probably won't work. Ironically, my original plan was to blow up earth. ;)

 

One of the reasons I started work on the creation of the Agincourt sim is the fact that there were no sims in STSF that dealt with events beyond the final TNG movie. There were no movies in the works at the time, so Harper and I (with contributions from other GMs) essentially established our own "alternate reality" with imagined events in the 20 year gap and political circumstances that seemed to logically follow.

 

I think the new movie just makes a sim like Agincourt and Talon, who already follow their own parameters, more unique and more imaginative for a role-player. Our forum is very diverse and I think there's room for sims that incorporate the new movie as much as those who cannot.

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I wouldn't presume to speak for Harper and Kansas, but given what I know about the foundations of the Agincourt sim, I think it would be impossible to incorporate events from the Trek reboot into that particular sim. Agincourt is set in the late 2390s, 20+ years after the end of Nemesis. Most of the major races, including Romulans, were woven into the fabric of the imagined future. No more Romulus? Yeah, that probably won't work. Ironically, my original plan was to blow up earth. ;)

 

One of the reasons I started work on the creation of the Agincourt sim is the fact that there were no sims in STSF that dealt with events beyond the final TNG movie. There were no movies in the works at the time, so Harper and I (with contributions from other GMs) essentially established our own "alternate reality" with imagined events in the 20 year gap and political circumstances that seemed to logically follow.

 

I think the new movie just makes a sim like Agincourt and Talon, who already follow their own parameters, more unique and more imaginative for a role-player. Our forum is very diverse and I think there's room for sims that incorporate the new movie as much as those who cannot.

 

Seems like you were almost there, just now Romulus can now be Earth ;P

 

I wouldn't expect for any of the GM's to just go racing in and change there ongoing plans simply to make the new Trek movie work for newer players. It really is just something new that I'd be interested to see, if anyone is willing to go for it of course, to tie it into some of the sims. The best thing to probably do anyways would be to establish a new sim or two into this new Star Trek. That way we can still point some of the newer players in that direction, towards the new sim, but still preserve the other sims. And it would also give us a chance to expose them to the already established sims also.

 

But like I said, it's just my 2 pennies ;)

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I wonder why Ambassador Spock landed on the Romulan ship after coming out of the black hole. It was a totally illogical action. I'm thinking it was obvious that Nero wanted revenge, so I see several smarter courses of action:

 

Turn the ship around and try to re-enter the black hole. Not exactly "smart", but you can. They might follow.

 

Sit there, contact Nero, and try to negotiate. Hopefully, with the red matter truckload behind you, they'll not shoot you. If they do, be my guest. They'll only destroy themselves.

 

Ram the ship into Nero's ship. Again, you'll destroy them, and really you aren't losing anything because you already exist elsewhere in this time and in your former time you'll still have disappeared.

 

Win-win. The Kelson would have still died, but Vulcan wouldn't have.

Edited by Leila Kalomi

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Ironically, my original plan was to blow up earth. ;)

 

Would you settle for Australia?

 

 

btw, loved it! I won't say much, cause everyone pretty much covered everything. But I must have been in a theatre with no Trek fans. Cause when they showed the shuttle scene where Sulu and Kirk were sitting there, then they pan out to the guy in red...I was the only one cracking up. ;)

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Ironically, my original plan was to blow up earth.

Would you settle for Australia?

 

Yes, Sydney Harbor is a fair bit.... rounder... than it used to be. ::eyes a cat:: And the Presidio is pretty much gone, we slagged the Eiffel Tower -- actually, most of Paris, I think large sections of Beijing...

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Wow... how very... rounded. Personally, I think it was time in Star Trek, that Earth actually got parts of it blown to pieces. I mean, normally it is just threats or is stopped in the nick of time. Not to sound like a psycho....

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Would you settle for Australia?

 

 

btw, loved it! I won't say much, cause everyone pretty much covered everything. But I must have been in a theatre with no Trek fans. Cause when they showed the shuttle scene where Sulu and Kirk were sitting there, then they pan out to the guy in red...I was the only one cracking up. ;)

 

geeze... i kept reading and reading this thread waiting for someone to mention this, hoping i wasnt the first! i was sitting there, and did exactly the same thing, saw sulu, kirk, and some nameless red shirt... i wispered to my friend "that guy in the red, you know he's gonna die very shortly", and i laughed to myself. like you, i didn't hear anyone else snickering when they saw the guy, and when he got vaporized, i cant say i was looking around, but i would imagine some shock from the crowd that they would kill off the guy with the explosives.

 

now with that said, i can go on to my complaints (a few)... i had no back story on the reasons for the new movie, nor the idea of this "reboot" of the series, so i did have some preconceived ideas before reading this thread:

 

- could have made it a quick "back to the original timeline" by having it revert back to pre-kelvin destruction, a-la voyager year of hell. but the reasons for it, now that i know it, does seem quite reasonable. but i'm a person, that enjoys seeing an alternate timeline, like just having one straight linear timeline.

- what was with the warp!?!? argh! as previously mentioned, one does not leave a system at warp speeds, and more irritating, enter a system at warp speeds. when they exited warp in titans atmosphere, i was in a state of disbelief. i know they can calculate positions of planets and such, so they not smash into them at absurd speeds, but what about shuttles etc that might be in the area. i had a slight problem with it.

 

i was going to add a few more, but i think i'll stop for there. just some macguffins seemed a little stretched, even for star trek.

 

loved the characters, and now i laugh a little bit more at the onion's report on the film. "if i wanted to see young attractive people doing cool, exciting things, i'll watch sports."

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geeze... i kept reading and reading this thread waiting for someone to mention this, hoping i wasnt the first! i was sitting there, and did exactly the same thing, saw sulu, kirk, and some nameless red shirt... i wispered to my friend "that guy in the red, you know he's gonna die very shortly", and i laughed to myself. like you, i didn't hear anyone else snickering when they saw the guy, and when he got vaporized, i cant say i was looking around, but i would imagine some shock from the crowd that they would kill off the guy with the explosives.

 

In the theater I was in, everyone were Trekkies. They gasped at the right moment, sniggered, cheered, sighed, and chuckled. Like at the red shirt moment, or when Spock Prime first turned around, and even McCoy's lines. I know I've said this before, but I -love- Seattle.

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oh yes, one other quick blurb that i'm sure lots of people noticed. the fight scene on the drilling platform, the music was a very well done re-worked piece of TOS fight music. it was great!

 

so to summarize my feelings on the film, loved the nostalgic elements, some technical aspects (that had to do with the plot driving elements) didn't like it as much. but overall, i'd give it a solid "what are you waiting for!? see the movie!"

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Oooooh, it was SO pretty, and I LOVED it!

Orion "slave girl" as a Starfleet cadet?! How could anyone concentrate in class - or on the same ship as them? It would definitely take more willpower than the typical Alpha Male (or Alpha Female, for that matter) can muster! "Lt., Fire all... ooooohhh, you're looking nice today.!

Well, she did say Uhura was tired of her bringing guys back to her dorm room.

 

What I don't get is why so many die-hard Trek fans are saying the movie is inconsistent with canon... and yet completely ignoring all the in-canon inconsistencies throughout Trek. Is this movie any worse than light-speed-breakaway being portrayed as a theory in The Voyage Home even though the technology was easily available in Assignment: Earth? And why would we need special timeships if Kirk had already took ships under his command back in time twice?

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Does anyone know if Kirk's brother was in the movie? Apparently the kid on the side of the road was him? But it would be impossible, because, as appears in the movie, Kirk was the only child of George and Winona...

 

Just a thought.

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I was hoping someone would mention Sam.

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I don't think they mentioned a brother in the movie one way or another.

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I don't think Finnigan or Gary Mitchell were mentioned either.

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Solid! I give it an A-

 

I'll post more tomorrow. ;)

Bear-i agree with everything you said-i would have changed it .....some people are going to be psssted-loved the ship -QUITO did look like nimoy <It was scary>NOW what do i do with my bio amy answers...

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WOW-on IMEX-WOW -loved it but didn,t like the part about you know what happens to a planet---the new actors did a great job of doing kirk ,spock,mccoy and the rest -loved the ship -<IT was filmed in a beer company >I HOPE When it comes out in dvd they show more of spocks parents-ITS Star trek but different---I loved the part about the credits -Dedication to Gene and Majel Roddenberry -I got one question HOW come people can,t wait to get to the movie watch it but leave before watching the credits<<THE place started to clean up before it ended_<not right to do that>Answer me that....just enjoy the movie-<<I might go and see it again>>

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