Continuity and Klingons

[Saylek 0]

Strictly speaking, this post is not technically a log, but more of a discussion thread. I chose this portion of the boards because it seems specific to Challenger and its time period setting, but if it's inappropriate here, I welcome the suggestion of an alternate location.

 

My thoughts are to address two topics:

1) The time period limitations of the Challenger setting, and

2) Our limited knowledge and exploration of the Klingon culture

 

Limitations

With the sim set in 2294, the beginning of the post-Khitomer period, most of the innovations introduced by TNG have not become reality - holodecks, quantum torpedoes, site-to-site transport. Communicators are still hand-held devices, not chest tapping insignia, and people on-board ship use the wall panels. Officers wear the burgundy-colored jacket and colored turtleneck uniforms. Ships have compact quarters.

 

I imagine there's room for Challenger to be the source of some innovations. In the TOS/movie time period, we'd seen psychologists and psychiatrists, but no onboard position of counselor. Maybe we're the first to discover Bolarus IX or run into the Breen. Maybe we're the first ship to call our landing party an "away team". Maybe this ship develops a gathering place that leads toward a future Ten-Forward. Who knows?

 

Exploring the Klingons

The Klingons are one such area of development. By Star Trek VI, knowledge of Klingon culture was very limited. The average Starfleet officer would know about their battle techniques, their ships, and their government, but the Klingons were a closed society who'd been our enemies for decades. Even by the second season of TNG, Riker is still giving lessons on Klingon cuisine as if gagh had never been heard of. Remember how surprised the Enterprise-A crew was to see their food and how they ate? I notice one log speculated on Klingon body type, without revealing too much about their redundant physiology (brak'lul). Maybe our doctors are among the first to see this?

 

Instead of having characters know and draw upon the wealth of established Klingon fact from TNG and DS9, wouldn't it be interesting to have the crew of Challenger - one of the first ships to operate in Klingon space in relative peace - be among the first to learn and document parts of their culture for the Federation? In working with Klingons and moving among these still-wary aliens, couldn't our logs reveal surprise at learning that our former blood-foes have depth? Imagine seeing the first bat'leth and hearing the legend of its origins. How about hearing revered descriptions of Kahless the Unforgettable that challenge the tyranical image plucked from Kirk's mind by the Excalbians?

 

I mention this because, with the conclusion of last sim and the US Independence holiday, we've got a real opportunity to write logs that describe interaction with the Klingons on their station and maybe their planet. Wouldn't your character like to go down as one of the real "explorers" of a former enemy. Klingons aren't chatty - unless they're drunk, I suppose - so one should be creative in figuring out how to be exposed to their culture (food, weapons, history).

 

I guess I'm looking for feedback, particularly from the Challenger crew, on other time period limitations (or alternate views on the ones I listed), and whether the idea of exploring the Klingon culture has merit. Any thoughts?

[Tachyon 0]

Klingons aren't chatty - unless they're drunk, I suppose - so one should be creative in figuring out how to be exposed to their culture (food, weapons, history).

So why don't we just get them drunk? :D

[Kallah Ramson 0]

In history ships in foreign ports would have a "pilot" assigned from the local port authority to guide them through the unfamiliar shores. If the Klingons assigned such a guide, that would open up a door for casual exploration of the Klingon persona. They would still be a Klingon officer and not actually be in the chain of command so you don't break with canon about Worf being the first Klingon in Starfleet. They would serve somewhat of the function as Nelix on Voyager. Also gives some tension and drama as security has to deal with a Klingon onboard and the two sides slowly learning to trust each other.

[Abe Kas 0]

RL Saylek is as wise as his Vulcan character. I feel we can make the following observations, based on ENT, TOS, and our own Specifications and Information Primer only:

1. Counselor - Shown to be an office along with the Sick Bay on Deck 7. Qualified psychiatrist were serving aboard starships in 23rd century. Memory Alpha has SF assigning them from the 2330s. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Counselor Archer made a comment in some episode about "having someone out here to help us" without naming the position.
    
   Conclusion: Captains have some lattitude in staffing, along with gathering reports from and discussions with other Captains. It could be my character's background which included being a Marriage and Family Counselor which interrested Captain Seiben. While this would not qualify me to be a Counselor in TNG+ days, it could help the crew and the personal problems/conflicts we all have, ala bartending during social events or in a more formal setting. He could have selected me because SF didn't "assign" him a Dr. of Psychiatry.
    
   Recommendations: Specification for NCC-2457 listed are for 2360s and beyond? A mistake in our records, everyone please disregard?
   
2. War Ending - Some Klingons must have been captured, alive. Dr. Phlox did examine one on NX-05. Others must have been available for medical studies.
    
   Conclusion: We know some things about Klingons (forget about the forehead ridges, TOS just didn't have the money for production). Dr. Phlox was amazed at the redundancy in Klingon physiology, from his study of that first Klingon NX-01 took back to Qo'Nos. Kirk, now dead, hated them, but had them on his ship with all those Tribbles. So medically, we've probably have only some very basic physiology. Certainly, we could not provide any blood transfusions, as we probably don't have the replicator capabilities to that detail? We do know some things, but we don't know too much, other than having made some prisoner exchanges over the last nearly 100 years.
    
   Recommendations: "Ensign Ricky" has been assigned TDY to go with the dog and the Klingons from the Outpost we are docked at. A lot could happen to him, anything from meeting females to being in a fight, to being killed. Our reaction to it could be ??? With the Klingons counter-reaction of ???
   

Personally, I can think of several ways to handle our next mission. One would be to not have a mission, but discuss all of this together. We are after all just a bunch of writers of a show we put on for ourselfs. Another would be for the Captain to IC assign us jobs to do while we are undergoing repairs, and .......I got to get me a root beer and coool off! Pandarians are on the loose!

[Kallah Ramson 0]

Something else that might be interesting to explore is the creation of the Klingons as a warrior race. That may seem an odd statement but hear me out. First, we know the Klingons are into revisionist history so just cause they boast of a proud warrior tradition doesn't mean it's exactly as they said. Second, a key part of "The Undiscovered Country" was that with the Praxis Accident the Klingon Empire could no longer financially maintain their military at the level they were at.

 

I propose that this means that the Klingons conscripted army is being dismissed in exchange for fewer but better trained warriors. The Imperial navy will largely be handed over or sold to individual "Houses" that can support the upkeep of this new limited but more effective army and navy. This would have led to the Houses struggling and mobilizing armies against themselves for power that we saw so much of in TNG. Propaganda would then start to tout the "Klingon Warrior" as a model for everyone to strive for. Because simply, they need well trained warriors that will fight for honor...rather than a paycheck. So what we have are Klingons that had some warrior traditions but nothing all consuming (we see some of this in TOS:"Day of the Dove") but most Klingon soldiers are drafted bullies with some Imperial ideology saying they are better than everyone else. (We see this in "Trouble With Tribbles", also very akin to how Cardassians were portrayed, and all boils down to basically being Nazis). But without the ability to finance such a large standing army the Klingons shift their culture to a well trained enlisted and warrior cast, now relying on quality over quantity.

 

There are several aspects of this that could be delved into. One would be what we saw in the movies with the leading generals and cultural purists resisting ANY changes to their way of life. Another more interesting thing would be the plight of the common soldier now being told to find another job. Historically this could be seen as the opposite of a major cultural change of the Roman Empire. Our idea today is that the poor always get sent off to die in wars. Historically the poor were not allowed to go to war. Only citizens of some standing could join the army. This was in part cause they were the only ones who could afford the equipment but it also kept to spoils of war for the wealthy. It also kept the poor from gaining fame and political power. When the Roman army was opened up to everyone (The Marian Reforms) common people had a chance to advance in society and non-citizens suddenly had a way to become the much sought after "Roman Citizen".

 

Back to the Klingons, they're standing army is now being told to go away and all the "glory" is being saved for the "Warriors". The common Klingon who can't afford training or equipment now has little chance to advance himself. (See the history of General Mar'tog for how some of that can play out). The ruling "Warrior" elite will gain more and more power as the lowly unemployed soldiers lose their power and most likely many of their rights, or atleast their ability to demand any rights. Klingon culture becomes stratified and devolves into Nobles, Knights, Surfs, and little in between and few hopes of moving between levels of society.

 

All this could mean we should see soldier demonstrations demanding backpay and retirement benefits. Not just the generals but the common soldier thinking war with the Federation would be a better choice. The old "House" structure reforming and testing out it's power and searching for a pecking order. Basic Klingon culture shifting from TOS to TNG examples with harsh and painful conflicts between the two. Generally...social disorder on a massive scale.

 

Standing orders from Starfleet Command.... if the Klingons during this time of social upheaval turn into space hippies.... shoot on sight.

[Abe Kas 0]

Something else that might be interesting to explore is the creation of the Klingons as a warrior race. That may seem an odd statement but hear me out. First, we know the Klingons are into revisionist history so just cause they boast of a proud warrior tradition doesn't mean it's exactly as they said. Second, a key part of "The Undiscovered Country" was that with the Praxis Accident the Klingon Empire could no longer financially maintain their military at the level they were at.

 

Kallah, do you see any similarities with the Japanese culture? I'm no expert, but it certainly seems similar to me. Can you imagine the anticipation an archieologist would have on a planet like Qo'noS? Great thought provoking comments.

 

Standing orders from Starfleet Command.... if the Klingons during this time of social upheaval turn into space hippies.... shoot on sight.

 

 

ROF With the thought of Klingons standarchaeologisting infront of a line ofin front gun toting guards, putting daisies in the barrels, watching the Rowen & Martin comedy show, and their ship covered in flowery hand-drawn images, the Maharishi's picture seen through the windows surrounded with more flowers...beads, peace signs, torn jeans, sandals even geekier than Tachyons.... :D

Edited July 2, 2008 by Abe Kas

[Savros 0]

Some excellent points have been made so far. I especially like Ramson's vision of merging the old and the new Klingon cultures. Thing is, Ramson will likely not be involved in our story lines or logs. (Although, she would make an excellent addition.) That leaves us, the crew of the Challenger, to come up with what we can imagine as a good transition between TOS and TNG.

 

Beyond what has been said about the Klingons, I am more interested in getting an understanding of how we set about doing our routines. I have tried to write my logs using TOS as a guide and recommend that everyone (re)watch Star Trek VI to get (re)acquainted with our time.

 

I believe we are hurting ourselves by not putting out more logs. The logs should be what binds us to the ship, one another and the current story line. We should be learning about each other and how each of us interacts with our star trek reality. This is where we will see us press buttons to communicate to one another and realize, as I did a while back, that it is not realistic to press a button on the wall and say a name in order to reach someone. We might have to track them down or page them.

 

I am in favor of making some new conventions more appropriate to our time. We can even decide when to upgrade them to TNG.

[Saylek 0]

I propose that this means that the Klingons conscripted army is being dismissed in exchange for fewer but better trained warriors. The Imperial navy will largely be handed over or sold to individual "Houses" that can support the upkeep of this new limited but more effective army and navy. This would have led to the Houses struggling and mobilizing armies against themselves for power that we saw so much of in TNG. Propaganda would then start to tout the "Klingon Warrior" as a model for everyone to strive for. Because simply, they need well trained warriors that will fight for honor...rather than a paycheck.

Spoken like a true student of cultural anthropology. Like Mr. Kas, this statement also made me think of the feudal Japanese model with the samurai bushido code. Certainly what we've come to see of Klingon honor must have had its roots there. There a great deal that our crews can learn.

 

Standing orders from Starfleet Command.... if the Klingons during this time of social upheaval turn into space hippies.... shoot on sight.

:::deadpan::: Heading down to Qo'nos, yea brother.

[Abe Kas 0]

Apparently, we have some major issues to discuss. Within each of those major issues, are several points that must be considered. For example, just on the technology issue, there are many points that need to be resolved and accepted by us all. For example, review http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/excelsior.html for a different configuration of our ship. Very reasonable points are made as to why the ship should only have 17 decks instead of 25, or whatever the numbers are.

 

I feel it is reasonable that we have to sort out all of these issues and the points within them. How and what the issues are, the discussion points within each issue, and soforth, and so on, present us with a dilema. Just like any new toy you get, to get the most out of it, it really, really helps to read the owner's manual. Only in our case, the owner's manual is written in TNG terms, and we're a good 70 years prior to that period. I liked the ST:ACTD artical above, because it does our time period take into account.

 

So the dilema is this: How do we go about resolving these issues? Do we open this up to everyone in STSF? We have a potentially and incredibly facinating opportunity to write some chapters in Star Trek history that have never been contemplated before! And how do we get to have some fun IC while doing it? Or do we suspend it for a while and colaborate like writers preparing for a new season?

 

Help me folks. Or someone tell me "Abe, shut up. This makes my head hurt to do all of this thinking. Give me a Root Beer, and put TWO scoops of ice cream in it!"

 

Thanks again to Saylek for his starting all of this. We all enjoy playing like kids in this relm, and we all have to grow up sometime or another too. That way, we can go back to playing like kids, and play much nicer with each other than kids do. After all, we don't have a mommie or teacher to run crying to about some kid not playing fair, or being mean and teasing me about something or other.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Abe Kas

[Gidgiddoni 0]

I mention this because, with the conclusion of last sim and the US Independence holiday, we've got a real opportunity to write logs that describe interaction with the Klingons on their station and maybe their planet.

 

If Challenger is only doing an unofficial sim due to the American holiday weekend, could we assume the crew can encounter some Klingons on the base or down on Qo'nos?

[Saylek 0]

I noticed players spent some time on the Klingon starbase, assuming they didn't know much about Klingons and learning about them. I just wanted to say I really enjoyed the logs about what they saw. Since my character (and ship) are off chasing ghosts, I hope the crew will take advantage of their opportunity to be among the first few Starfleet officers to set foot on the Klingon homeworld.