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Charles Stone

Battle of Agincourt

=/\= Personal Log =/\=

-= Stardate 0701.17 =-

Starfleet Communications Network

Ensign Charles Stone

Graduate – Pending Assignment

Starfleet Academy

 

I'm not able to sleep, the curiosity bug has me in its clutches again. Agincourt. 1415. These are familiar, but I cant quite put my finger on it...

 

Hmmm, where's my PADD, I gotta figure this out so I can sleep... Ah here it is, yes 1415, battle of Agincourt, fought on 25 Oct which is known as St. Crispins day.

 

St. Crispins day, yes of course from Shakespeare's Henry V, the famous St. Crispins Day speech, was given before the battle of Agincourt and King Henry V was against Charles VI of France in that battle...

 

Says here the English were said to be vastly outnumber to the tune of 20-30 thousand French against 6 grand Englishmen, with only the now famous English Longbow to help balance the odds. Although early 21st century scholars reassessed the odds to be no more than 2 or 3 to 1. Hmmm, those scholars make it seem like 9 on 3 are odds worth betting on the underdog...

 

Hmmm... Interesting that a ship that has Multi Vehicle Attack Mode and can split into 3 independant sections should be named after a battle where the victors were out numbered 3 to 1...

 

What else? Seems like I'm missing what ever it is that is keeping me awake...

 

Well, there are some popular, though largely disputed, myth's about this battle. Hmmm... It is said that the French feared the English longbowmen so much that they cut off the first two fingers if they captured any of them. Some think this lead to the famous "V" shape later used to stand for what some would say are polar opposites "Victory" and "Peace". Thats close, but what else could it be?

 

Ahhh! Here it is, a variation of the "V" myth that says the French only cut off the middle finger, giving rise to the "the Bird", a hand gesture so universal that saying you will "give the finger" is enough of a description for people to know what you are talking about.

 

The finger... yep thats what I needed to know, now back to sleep.

 

 

 

-=END LOG=-

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Ahhh! Here it is, a variation of the "V" myth that says the French only cut off the middle finger, giving rise to the "the Bird", a hand gesture so universal that saying you will "give the finger" is enough of a description for people to know what you are talking about.

 

The finger... yep thats what I needed to know, now back to sleep.

 

 

So does that mean that those of us who are posted on the Agincourt can freely give "the finger"? I mean after all it is our name sake right? I think I like that idea.

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So does that mean that those of us who are posted on the Agincourt can freely give "the finger"?

 

We could make it our new greeting...you know instead of simply nodding.

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So does that mean that those of us who are posted on the Agincourt can freely give "the finger"? I mean after all it is our name sake right? I think I like that idea.

 

We could make it our new greeting...you know instead of simply nodding.

 

ROFL!! I like that idea Mona!

 

Thanks for the history lesson Charles, and Jaden as history runner up.

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The story is also that archers who still had that first finger would show it off to the enemy, hence the "two-fingered salute". But I've heard that it's not true, too. :D

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Psh...the English couldn't handle a longbow if their life depended on it. Now the Welsh on the other hand....

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Um sorry to be an outrageous limey but I have to correct you on the fingers thing. Over in the UK, its extremely less common to just use the middle finger or "flipping the bird" as you yanks say. The "bird" phrase doesn't really exist over here for young people, we just say "giving someone the finger".

 

Now I have to tell you that "the finger" gesture itself isn't really related to the whole 100 years war thing. For that gesture, you're looking at "giving someone the V's". If you raise both the forefinger and middle finger and face the nails TOWARDS a person, you certainly aren't saying v for victory like churchill did! In fact after his ministers informed him what the sign the wrong way round meant, he never did it like that again in public. Its simply our lil way of saying F U to eachother. This is because with the old school bows you definitely needed BOTH fingers to pull it back and so the french cut both off so we flash both at 'em! One finger wouldn't make sense.

 

There's often a mix up between the two insult's origins so there's no harm done really. I went to have a look on the old wikipedia and actually found out something quite interesting, that in fact the more widespread "finger" might predate the v's by quite a lot of time! As in the romans! I also suspected another possible link the page mentions with the old Italian "fungoo" bent elbow insult.

 

Here ya go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_finger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign

"The same story has circulated in the US as a supposed explanation for the use of the middle finger as an obscenity, with the added flourish of saying the slang term for the sign, "flipping/giving the bird," has something to do with feathers on arrows. This is absolutely untrue, as the middle-finger sign dates at least to ancient Rome and definitely symbolizes a ######; "giving the bird" dates to 1800s British theatrical slang, meaning to be driven off stage by goose-like hisses, and was apparently connected to the middle-finger sign by US military pilots in the 1960s"

 

Oh and Grommie, we're all Brits anyway so meh. *shrug* :D

Edited by Images

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Who knew the history of "the finger" was so - uh - distinguished!

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Um sorry to be an outrageous limey but I have to correct you on the fingers thing. Over in the UK, its extremely less common to just use the middle finger or "flipping the bird" as you yanks say. The "bird" phrase doesn't really exist over here for young people, we just say "giving someone the finger".

 

Now I have to tell you that "the finger" gesture itself isn't really related to the whole 100 years war thing. For that gesture, you're looking at "giving someone the V's". If you raise both the forefinger and middle finger and face the nails TOWARDS a person, you certainly aren't saying v for victory like churchill did! In fact after his ministers informed him what the sign the wrong way round meant, he never did it like that again in public. Its simply our lil way of saying F U to eachother. This is because with the old school bows you definitely needed BOTH fingers to pull it back and so the french cut both off so we flash both at 'em! One finger wouldn't make sense.

 

There's often a mix up between the two insult's origins so there's no harm done really. I went to have a look on the old wikipedia and actually found out something quite interesting, that in fact the more widespread "finger" might predate the v's by quite a lot of time! As in the romans! I also suspected another possible link the page mentions with the old Italian "fungoo" bent elbow insult.

 

Here ya go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_finger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign

"The same story has circulated in the US as a supposed explanation for the use of the middle finger as an obscenity, with the added flourish of saying the slang term for the sign, "flipping/giving the bird," has something to do with feathers on arrows. This is absolutely untrue, as the middle-finger sign dates at least to ancient Rome and definitely symbolizes a ######; "giving the bird" dates to 1800s British theatrical slang, meaning to be driven off stage by goose-like hisses, and was apparently connected to the middle-finger sign by US military pilots in the 1960s"

 

Oh and Grommie, we're all Brits anyway so meh. *shrug* :)

Ah, yes, the two-fingered salute. :D

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Psh...the English couldn't handle a longbow if their life depended on it. Now the Welsh on the other hand....

 

 

 

Apparently someone's never played AOE II :D

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Apparently someone's never played AOE II :D

 

Psh...revisionist history.

 

(I usually play with the Spanish...yay for Paladins)

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