Star Wars characters

[Dumbass 0]

OK, I ran across several notations where George Lucas said that the human-looking, human-acting characters in the Star Wars galaxy are not in fact humans. And yet one of C3PO's most prominent lines is "I am C-3PO, human-cyborg relations."

 

How the heck would C-3PO have known what a human is if the predominant Star Wars race weren't humans?

[Vuxan Zal 0]

Well every movie starts with “A long time ago in a galaxy far far away…” so technically and logically they couldn’t be humans. So that statement of C3PO is either a stupid mistake or a mistake made by our universal translator. Probably this second :(

[Rason Johandy 0]

Yea, the thing is, in Star Wars they speak Basic, so in order for us humans to understand, they have to get a Translator and translate it into English. Its like watching a dubbed french movie. The closest word we have to what C3P-O was saying is Human. so yea.. :(

[Sendai Riko 0]

George Lucas made a mistake in the script, more like it.

[Dumbass 0]

Even still, humanoid implies a knowledge of humans. This would not be possible in another galaxy.

 

It does explain the bad acting however.

[knlwtchr 0]

OK, I ran across several notations where George Lucas said that the human-looking, human-acting characters in the Star Wars galaxy are not in fact humans. And yet one of C3PO's most prominent lines is "I am C-3PO, human-cyborg relations."

 

How the heck would C-3PO have known what a human is if the predominant Star Wars race weren't humans?

 

I have a rather simple answer, but maybe Im missing the point: He was programed to say that later. He was being sold out of a collection of droids when we met him. The Skywalkers were humanoids. Perhaps the salesmen knew he might run accross humanoid buyers. Or, like 3PO says, he was familiar with many different languages and he ad libbed.

Edited November 12, 2006 by knlwtchr

[will_marx 0]

Here's the thing though. A human is a human, so long as they are a member of family Homo Sapien, regardless of where they are found. It's just like the gravitational constant of one gravity equaling 9.82 m/s2.

 

DA, I'd like to know where you found that citation, since even in the Starwars.com Databank, "Human" is listed as a species, although not in it's own category.

 

I hate to say it, but Lucas has a habit of contradicting his own canon. For example, in Return of the Jedi, Luke is asking Leia about their mother, and Leia replies she only remembers feelings, images; that she was very young when she died. But, in Revenge of the Sith, he has Padme Skywalker dying in childbirth, which contradicts canon from the earlier movie.

Edited November 12, 2006 by will_marx

[knlwtchr 0]

OK, not to change the discussion, but if there are plenty of incontinuities not just in the story line, but in the refurbished renditions. If you watch Star Wars IV, during the fight with the millenium falcon and four TIE fighters near the end of the flick. I noticed that some of the TIE fighters would appear to have an image of a box following it through space. Its like an imaging glitch that they didnt clean up during their movie "washing" this late time. Did anyone else notice it?

[Dumbass 0]

I hate to say it, but Lucas has a habit of contradicting his own canon. For example, in Return of the Jedi, Luke is asking Leia about their mother, and Leia replies she only remembers feelings, images; that she was very young when she died. But, in Revenge of the Sith, he has Padme Skywalker dying in childbirth, which contradicts canon from the earlier movie.

 

This is not necessarily a contradiction. Leia said Padme died when she was very young, and certainly a few minutes after birth would qualify as "very young". Leia had vague memories of her real mother from these few minutes but even though Luke was older than Leia by a few minutes that doesn't make it necessary that he had those same memories.

 

Besides, technically speaking, Padme didn't die *in* childbirth, she died *from* childbirth.

[will_marx 0]

This is not necessarily a contradiction. Leia said Padme died when she was very young, and certainly a few minutes after birth would qualify as "very young". Leia had vague memories of her real mother from these few minutes but even though Luke was older than Leia by a few minutes that doesn't make it necessary that he had those same memories.

 

Besides, technically speaking, Padme didn't die *in* childbirth, she died *from* childbirth.

 

The only problem with that theory, DA, is that cognition is underdeveloped in newborns. The underlying statement from ROTJ implies that Leia and Padme were together for a brief time on Alderaan.

[Kansas_Jones 0]

four TIE fighters near the end of the flick. I noticed that some of the TIE fighters would appear to have an image of a box following it through space. Its like an imaging glitch that they didnt clean up during their movie "washing" this late time. Did anyone else notice it?

 

I've always noticed the boxes following the fighters as well Andrea, at least in the original VHS released versions (I have yet to purchase any redone DVD's). Maybe, even with all the tech now, there is no way to clean that up?

 

But going back to the orginal topic: Short (real life) version: they were written as human. If star wars.com has some sort of listing for humans, then lets go with humans.

 

Long (fictional/canon/oops)version: Started out as humans, went to humanoid, and somewhere down the line (lets say in the books possibly? Lucas regards them as canon), as Lucas himself reworks his original vision of the franchise, Luke, Leia, Han and those that looked human became a non human type species.

 

And as Andrea said, C3PO could also have been programmed to say Human, or as a shortened version of Humanoid. Go with human, if its in the first (Ep 4) film, because that film was the first shown and honestly set the standards.

 

DA and Will, I think this is one of those loaded topics where we're never going to get a straight answer out of it or each other, because franchise universes are rarely cut and dry with the information because there's so much to deal with. How can we honestly come to a conclusion especially if you have Lucas quoting that "no they aren't humans", yet the Wars site has a Human notation? It be like trying to analyze Enterprise and all the post Classic Treks with all of the "canon inconsistencies" that were "all the producers/writers fault". Bantering, its what we do! Woo!

 

General Inconsistencies: I have said this for a long time, Star Wars is going to have them because Eps. 4-6 are the originals, rather then 1-3. I know I read at some point that all six existed as a solid story, but the studio wanted to start with Ep. 4, but I don't believe that. Ep 1-3 merely existed as a framework for 4-6, and were completed at some point after 4-6, which can totally account for various oopsies that have popped up btw the classic Wars and the new episodes.

 

For those of you that just skipped reading all that: My vote goes for Humans :D

 

>^..^<

Edited November 13, 2006 by Kansas_Jones

[knlwtchr 0]

I've always noticed the boxes following the fighters as well Andrea, at least in the original VHS released versions (I have yet to purchase any redone DVD's). Maybe, even with all the tech now, there is no way to clean that up?

>^..^<

 

Maybe. Actually, I saw it on one of the cable movie channels, showtime or cinemax or something. They are showing the remastered versions and the three newer SWs as well. The boxes still appeared in these new versions. Its odd to see "glitches" like that in a remastered version, because everything else is so clear. =0]

 

I have never seen the newer SWs because (when I watched previews for it) I thought they predated technology from the older ones. I know Lucas tried to make up for that with the additions, but its just not the same.

[will_marx 0]

Maybe. Actually, I saw it on one of the cable movie channels, showtime or cinemax or something. They are showing the remastered versions and the three newer SWs as well. The boxes still appeared in these new versions. Its odd to see "glitches" like that in a remastered version, because everything else is so clear. =0]

 

I have never seen the newer SWs because (when I watched previews for it) I thought they predated technology from the older ones. I know Lucas tried to make up for that with the additions, but its just not the same.

 

But the boxes and other editing faux pas are what make the original 3 so charming. I just wish they had kept the original Anakin Skywalker instead of Hayden Christiansen at the end of ROTJ. It was something all us long time SW fans loved.

 

As for the prequels-- Ep. 1 we could have done without the "cuteness" factor. Ep.2 would make for a smashingly good movie, if it weren't for the bad acting and overly-drawn out romantic interludes between the action. And Ep. 3 was probably the best of the three, with, literally, the biggest space battle in filming history, the longest single duel in filming history as well, and so lovingly dark. Although I would have prefered seeing more Anakin v. Ben as opposed to it being interspersed with the fight between Palpatine and Yoda.

[WxMurray 0]

For example, in Return of the Jedi, Luke is asking Leia about their mother, and Leia replies she only remembers feelings, images; that she was very young when she died. But, in Revenge of the Sith, he has Padme Skywalker dying in childbirth, which contradicts canon from the earlier movie.

However, since they carried the Force, I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to remember images of their mother through the Force.

 

OK, not to change the discussion, but if there are plenty of incontinuities not just in the story line, but in the refurbished renditions. If you watch Star Wars IV, during the fight with the millenium falcon and four TIE fighters near the end of the flick. I noticed that some of the TIE fighters would appear to have an image of a box following it through space. Its like an imaging glitch that they didnt clean up during their movie "washing" this late time. Did anyone else notice it?

Those are called "garbage mattes". You can see them in Star Trek IV around the Bird of Prey as it heads for the sun early in the movie.

 

And I, too, am kind of surprised that things like that weren't fixed. Another thing, in the space battle in IV there is a shot of a pilot inside an X-Wing who pulls up from the Death Star. As he does so, you can see through the smaller of the windows behind him that they forgot to put an image in over the chromakey (green screen). One would think that he'd have fixed that, too.

[Kansas_Jones 0]

But the boxes and other editing faux pas are what make the original 3 so charming. I just wish they had kept the original Anakin Skywalker instead of Hayden Christiansen at the end of ROTJ. It was something all us long time SW fans loved.

 

And Ep. 3 was probably the best of the three, with, literally, the biggest space battle in filming history, the longest single duel in filming history as well, and so lovingly dark.

 

Two months or so ago, there were advertisements for the DVD's being re-released for Eps 4-6, with no alterations? I'm under the impression that Christiansen has been removed as well, or am I mistaken?

 

I agree with Will: while 4-6 are the true Star Wars, of the three new eps, I liked Ep. 3 the most. Adventure with the Dark Jedi, woo! ::grins::

[knlwtchr 0]

But the boxes and other editing faux pas are what make the original 3 so charming. I just wish they had kept the original Anakin Skywalker instead of Hayden Christiansen at the end of ROTJ. It was something all us long time SW fans loved.

 

Yes, Will, I noticed that too! And I was very disappointed with the change, too. Mostly because you like to see Darth Vadar whole again.

[Dumbass 0]

You know what would be an interesting story? Palpatine as a *good* guy.

 

I could see such a story taking place shortly after The Phantom Menace. Palpatine is the Supreme Chancellor, but a *new* Supreme Chancellor, and maybe not quite as strong with the dark side as in ROTS. He finds some of Valorum's "baseless accusations of graft and corruption" maybe weren't so baseless, and maybe in such a way to threaten his eventual rise to Emperor if allowed to contimue. To protect his future of evil Palpatine has to correct the situation and do good in the process.

 

But as for those boxes behind the TIEs, remember the last theatrical release of A New Hype ( :D ) in the late 90s came out before HDTV. Maybe Lucas just didn't imagine screen resolution would be so good now and that no one would notice.

[Kansas_Jones 0]

I don't know what galaxy you're from, but Romulan Siths only use green light sabers! Ferengi, orange etc.

 

You'll just have to check the Wookiepedia. :D

 

Darth Sidious was magnificent. Now make a movie about my favorite count, Darth Tyranus. I want to see more of Archduke Poggle, Wat Tambor, and the mysterious Syphodias.

 

You know what would be an interesting story? Palpatine as a *good* guy.

 

Even though I am a Sci Fi/Trek fan, I can fall into the casual Wars fan area occasionally (watch the movies, play the video games, know the basic characters, check out a book). However, in the Wars RPG games I have played/am playing (KOTOR 1 and 2, Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy) ::sly grin:: I get a kick out of "falling to the dark side"...force lighting and double bladed sabres baby! KOTOR 1 (current play) is the only game of the three that I decided to just go for the light side first and not the Dark Jedi angle. Must be that Mirror Universe influence. :-p

 

Now with that said - Palpatine as a good guy? Sounds like a neat story idea there DA. Sometimes the novels are good like that, concentrating on non spotlight Wars characters for a change. I'd recommend the Med Star and Republic Commando novels in this case.

[STSF NDak 0]

Actually I think the point of the movies was to call into question the subjectivity of Good vs Evil. Who's to say that Palpy wasn't the good guy and the Jedi were evil?

[knlwtchr 0]

Actually I think the point of the movies was to call into question the subjectivity of Good vs Evil. Who's to say that Palpy wasn't the good guy and the Jedi were evil?

 

You know, its funny that you meantion that, Koshic. I was thinking that the last time I watched ROTJ. Of course, maybe they wouldnt have named it the "DeathStar". I think I like, "HappyDome" better. What do you think?

[STSF Precip 0]

OK, I ran across several notations where George Lucas said that the human-looking, human-acting characters in the Star Wars galaxy are not in fact humans. And yet one of C3PO's most prominent lines is "I am C-3PO, human-cyborg relations."

 

How the heck would C-3PO have known what a human is if the predominant Star Wars race weren't humans?

 

 

I would love to see these notations before I comment on this, given I am a big Star Wars Fan.

 

-Precip

[Dumbass 0]

Actually I think the point of the movies was to call into question the subjectivity of Good vs Evil. Who's to say that Palpy wasn't the good guy and the Jedi were evil?

 

That's a good point. You have to respect the Empire (and by extention Palpatine) for one thing, they certainly knew how to provide order and stability out of the chaos and bureaucracy that was the Republic.

[will_marx 0]

That's a good point. You have to respect the Empire (and by extention Palpatine) for one thing, they certainly knew how to provide order and stability out of the chaos and bureaucracy that was the Republic.

But you can apply that to every dictatorship from Hitler to Lenin right on down to Gaius Julius Caesar.

 

Hitler brought stability and respect back to post-WWI Germany, crippled by the punitive Versailles Treaty, but at the cost of the most German of Germans-- the Jews.

 

Lenin established order and discipline from the decadent Romanovs, but alienated the literati.

 

Caesar did the same thing with the Roman Republic, but cost him his life in the hands of those jealous of his successes, both militarily and politically.

 

History is replete with examples. And perhaps SW serves as a warning to be on our toes from good intentions hiding dark desires, with the ends justifying the means.

[Images 0]

People want to be governed, but they don't like to be ruled. Its a human weakness in its contradiction. We need the alpha male, top dog calling the shots or it doesn't seem right but that same animal instinct drives us to want to change the balance of power to a more equitable solution.

 

 

Dictatorships are great for control and stability as well as making long-term plans that can be overseen from start to finish without a change in policy but they're pitifully low on human rights to a terrible extent. Democracies allow growth of the arts, culture and public speech and allow a greater share of wealth but the beauracracy is endless.

 

This is why Communism is a great idea in theory, a focussed collective, getting the best of both worlds but really, its impossible to implement on us mere animals. :D

Edited November 15, 2006 by Images

[Joy 0]

I've always thought Star Trek at its best explores ideas in the science fiction tradition, where Star Wars is more in the fantasy tradition defining and exploring Good and Evil. For quite a while, when role playing The Force, I've assumed that emotions amplify power, but are also addictive. Whatever emotion a psi uses to push is abilities becomes a crutch, and one keeps going back to it, depending on it.

 

This isn't quite SW canon, but is close enough.

 

I've had a character I've tried to play several times, but haven't been able to find a stable campaign. She would come from a family strong in the force, started training in the old tradition, fell in love, abandoned the training out of fear of strong emotions, and retired to an out of the way nature world to raise a kid. Kid kidnapped by a Sith looking for a student. Mother pissed. Really potentially angry. We basically have a very good person, knowing she is walking a very dangerous path, but who isn't willing to stay in the woods and let the situation be. The base theme is that being addicted to power wielded even for the sake of love can be dangerous.

 

I played her a few times under the D6 version of Star Wars. I told the games master my little girl had a little curl in the middle of her forehead. When she is good, she is very very good... When she is bad... Well. There is that Hulk line. You are making me angry. You don't want to make me angry. The few times I played her, while the rest of the gang was practicing combat skills, solving mysteries and slaying bad guys, she would spend a lot of off moments running through the woods, meditating, keeping herself centered, knowing what might happen to her if she looses control.

 

Anyway, I'm more a Trek guy at heart, but there are ideas to be explored under the flash and high special effects spending of Star Wars.