Sky Harbor Aegis???

[cdt_starbuck 0]

:) Confusion has set in again, from what i know, it is an advanced sim, but not a ship?? I heard it was a Starbase, can i get this cleared up! (if they had a "my head is spinning" Smiley i would use it now)

THE END :blink:

[Kallah Ramson 0]

Sky Harbor Aegis is a space station in the Cardassian system. It has support craft but primarily action takes place on the station. http://www.skyharboraegis.com/ is their webpage and any further information can be seen there.

[Kansas_Jones 0]

Well, I'm by no means a veteran of the Aegis, but I'll jump in here: as Kallah pointed out, Sky Harbor Aegis has been in operation for 10 years and is located in Cardassia space, representing Starfleet interests in the area. Good simming crew!

Edited August 13, 2006 by Kansas_Jones

[STSF Seiben 0]

Nice cushy brigs there too. :)

[Kansas_Jones 0]

Nice cushy brigs there too. :)

 

Do you know something I don't know? Is that a warning? :-D

[STSF Seiben 0]

Do you know something I don't know? Is that a warning? :-D

 

Just something I did during a past stopover at STSF's interglactic bus stop..

[Guest STSF Muon]

Oh oh, did I put you in the brig Seiben? Hopefully I let you have the deluxe cell. :)

[STSF Seiben 0]

Oh oh, did I put you in the brig Seiben? Hopefully I let you have the deluxe cell. :)

 

 

Yes, you did. And no, I don't think I got the deluxe cell. :blink:

[Joy 0]

Station sims are a definite change of pace from ship sims. On a station, there are lots of civilians wandering around, so not everyone is subject to Starfleet motives and discipline. The plots tend towards 'something strange comes to the station' rather than 'the ship goes somewhere strange.' While a lot of ships follow the Roddenberry idealistic traditions of the older Trek series, stations, including in my opinion Aegis, tend towards the darker and gritty Berman DS9 tradition. These differences are all a matter of taste, though in my opinion once one has spent a lot of time doing one format, they ought to try the other for a change of pace.

 

Aegis is also unique in having six players running diplomats. Currently, there is considerable culture shock in progress as the diplomats and Starfleet crew each attempt to exercise their traditional rights and prerogatives. I've been in lots of sims where everyone is Starfleet, and quite a few sims where everyone is in the diplomatic corps. The structures and assumptions of these two types of sims are very different. This is the first time I've seen a diplomatic corps about the same size as the traditional science, medical, engineering, security, bridge divide.

 

And I wouldn't worry too much about getting thrown into the brig. At the moment, more of the crew is out of the brig than in. Staying free is quite plausible if you really put your mind to it. For starters, don't yell at the admiral unless you have diplomatic immunity. Well, that is true in most sims. It's just that on Aegis, the admiral makes it so easy to forget.... :)

[Philip Carst 0]

It's funny though. We could throw the Admiral in the brig for some of the same reasons he threw the crew in...

[Kansas_Jones 0]

It's funny though. We could throw the Admiral in the brig for some of the same reasons he threw the crew in...

 

Name calling, public displays of anger, issuing a blanket order with no specific instructions, not informing the ambassadorial staff directly...yep, typical Admiral behavior. :)

 

It really is a different dynamic on a station, though. Fun stuff, and I am glad as a player that I checked out "the other side".

[D'Mysus Ramson 0]

While a lot of ships follow the Roddenberry idealistic traditions of the older Trek series, stations, including in my opinion Aegis, tend towards the darker and gritty Berman DS9 tradition.

 

 

 

The original Aegis, in my opinion, was not as dark as DS9. While we followed the events on DS9 and had more direct interaction with the Maquies than they did, most of us retained the higher values of Star Trek.

 

The current Aegis is.... it's own thing.

 

Here's a link to the "Aegis Chronicles" which cover about the first 4 or 5 years of the Aegis sim, before it became "Sky Harbor".

Aegis History part 1

Aegis History Part 2

[Chell Reno 0]

Aegis is an awsome sim. Glad to be part of her crew. If you descide to join I doubt you'll be disapointed.

[Joy 0]

It's funny though. We could throw the Admiral in the brig for some of the same reasons he threw the crew in...

 

Eventually, Joy is going to find out about the arrests... If anyone needs legal advice, and there is no embassy from your own planet within reach, feel free to contact the Mudd consulate. :D

[Philip Carst 0]

Eventually, Joy is going to find out about the arrests... If anyone needs legal advice, and there is no embassy from your own planet within reach, feel free to contact the Mudd consulate. :D

 

Actually, at one point in time Carst felt like throwing the diplomats in the brig too...

[Murdok Helios 0]

Heh i'd like to see you try :D

 

 

Check out Sky harbor for your future in STSF advanced simming!

[Joy 0]

Actually, at one point in time Carst felt like throwing the diplomats in the brig too...

 

Repeat after me. Diplomatic Immunity. And can you say Act of War? Ah... I thought you could... :D

 

In other diplomatic sims, Joy is used to handling parliamentary procedure, alien motivations, interviews with Galactic Network News, the fine print of the canon Federation Constitution, high rhetoric and low trickery... So far on Aegis, the dominant response, if someone hasn't liked what she has to say, has been to run away, hide, and pretend not to hear. Debate, rhetoric, law and compromise, people! Starfleet Aegis's surrender of the diplomatic playing field has left Joy with a nice clean clear playing field to set up alliances with the other ambassadors. If you don't figure out soon how the game is played...

 

It isn't played with hand phasers. Can't even use em. Entirely different playing field...

Edited August 17, 2006 by Joy

[Philip Carst 0]

Hey, I just stand in attention and look stupid. 'Course, if you run around trying to kill or otherwise harm someone, then I might use the phaser.

[Nicolas Lepage 0]

Repeat after me. Diplomatic Immunity. And can you say Act of War? Ah... I thought you could... :D

 

In other diplomatic sims, Joy is used to handling parliamentary procedure, alien motivations, interviews with Galactic Network News, the fine print of the canon Federation Constitution, high rhetoric and low trickery... So far on Aegis, the dominant response, if someone hasn't liked what she has to say, has been to run away, hide, and pretend not to hear. Debate, rhetoric, law and compromise, people! Starfleet Aegis's surrender of the diplomatic playing field has left Joy with a nice clean clear playing field to set up alliances with the other ambassadors. If you don't figure out soon how the game is played...

 

It isn't played with hand phasers. Can't even use em. Entirely different playing field...

 

 

Two things...

 

1. Diplomatic Immunity doesn't mean you can do as you please and expect no consequences to come of it. The ambassadors have been just as little forthcoming as the crew has been.

 

2. With most of the senior staff in the brig or trying to figure out what's actually happening or not yet cleared for duty after being attacked you can't expect to get any answers. No junior officer in his right mind would give anyone (especially not a cunning diplomat :D ) information without clearing it with the senior staff.

 

::grins:: Oh man, this will make for an interesting few weeks on Aegis.

[Joy 0]

Two things...

 

1. Diplomatic Immunity doesn't mean you can do as you please and expect no consequences to come of it. The ambassadors have been just as little forthcoming as the crew has been.

 

2. With most of the senior staff in the brig or trying to figure out what's actually happening or not yet cleared for duty after being attacked you can't expect to get any answers. No junior officer in his right mind would give anyone (especially not a cunning diplomat :D ) information without clearing it with the senior staff.

 

::grins:: Oh man, this will make for an interesting few weeks on Aegis.

 

Hmm... Joy in Ambassador mode might not be the easiest sentient being to get along with, especially for those who think themselves above the law, but not being forthcoming isn't one of her problems. :D

 

I'll take your point, though. A lot of the diplomatic corps and senior Aegis Starfleet people have been out of circulation for various reasons the last few weeks. Anyway, I hope the divides don't become too large. Most Star Trek sims are cooperative. The host has firm and complete control of the situation with both out of character action statements and in character chain of command. Aegis is flirting with competitive situations, with each ambassador having a different agenda, the Starfleet command staff fragmented against itself, and the junior officers not quite sure where the next surprise is going to come from.

 

While this has been way fun in the short term, I don't think it sustainable in the long term. I don't think it would be healthy for the game in the long term for the players and characters to divide into cliques with opposing agendas, and develop traditions that the cliques don't talk to one another.

 

From Joy's perspective, this is just as problematic in character as out. Ideally, she would like a working relationship among the ambassadors, such that they are able to form a consensus as to regional policy. She'd like to see a working relationship with Starfleet, such that the diplomatic consensus can be implemented. Right now, there is a lot of work to be done to achieve this.

 

Thus, while I can see from your character's perspective how paranoia and secrecy might seem a good prudent recourse, Joy is pushing in other directions. I would encourage Aegis players to let their characters find reasons to role play.

[Nicolas Lepage 0]

The problem's not the long turboshafts but the short airlocks. :D

[Joy 0]

Can you say persona non grata? :D

 

Have you ever noticed how long the turboshafts are on Aegis?

 

"Go carefully Batai."

 

Oh, I can. But so far Joy's major defining act was protesting an obvious violation of diplomatic protocol, and questioning a very real ongoing violation of the Guarantees. Getting persona non grata out of that is going to be really difficult.

 

Meanwhile, Joy has been looking to have a quiet word about equal dignity and status for all planets, and Federation ambassadors not interfering with each other's duty stations without consulting first. Joy is aware that certain older planets, Earth and Vulcan chief among them, seem to believe they are more equal than other planets. In the Federation Council sims, a player that pushed this theory very much soon discovered that the many so called minor planets could out vote the heck out of the few major planets. The players of major planet ambassadors quickly learned to tread very carefully with their supposed extra influence.

 

The canon Federation constitution gives a few major planets veto powers. While most hosts edited that out, a few hosts played it as written. Never saw an ambassador use his veto more than once. Bad juju. Really bad juju. Spend four or five weeks working out a compromise that makes most of the planets happy, and one arrogant (expletive deleted) (expletive deleted) (expletive deleted) thinks he can...

 

Anyway, next time my esteemed colleague from Vulcan feels inclined to interfere with Aegis Station, he is humbly requested to first consult with the senior Federation Ambassador on station. (Sorry if you are the wrong Vulcan.)

 

Or anyway, over in COL and CPA, the above sort of discussion was a key part of the game. Have another point of view? Let's hear it. Threats of persona non grata, brig time, long turbo lift shafts and short airlocks? Well, remember Data's leap down the missile silo in Star Trek : First Contact? Push an android into a shaft, and it had best be a really long shaft. Space her, and she can't breath. So what? Put someone with diplomatic immunity in a cell, and just who is in trouble? Y'all might consider a different approach. :D

[Philip Carst 0]

Y'all might consider a different approach. :D

 

Humor the diplomats?

[Joy 0]

Humor the diplomats?

Or a phaser. That would work. :D

[Joy 0]

I am intrigued! Please forgive me Ambassador Joy. I was pleasantly surprised by your tasteful but generous use of expletives. :)

 

We wouldn't want STSF's version of C3PO damaged now would we? However, an accidental dismembering may endear you to the sentimental among us. Look what it did for Juliana Tainer.

 

Aspersions aside, where can I find the canon of the Federation Constitution?

 

And only if decorum permits, please accept my invitation to buy you a drink at the Redstar Nightclub.

 

Sorry to strain your finely chiseled ears with hints of tainted language, but when you run a competitive game format, it becomes very important to set a level playing surface. When many players work hard to get something done, and one player has the capability to ruin it... As I said, bad juju. Very bad juju.

 

Look for the "Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual" commonly known as the TOS Technical Manual. Not easy to find these days. Ballantine Books. ISBN 0-345-34074-4

 

A half dozen years back, there were a few versions of it on line, subtly modified from the TOS TM version. You might try Google.

 

Or, I'm afraid the other thing you might do is study the UN Charter. The authors of the TOS TM didn't want to spend all that much time reinventing the interstellar alliance, so they lifted the UN Charter quite freely. The names of the planets have been changed to protect the guilty. Thus, a Council that handles foreign relations and authorizes use of force, an Assembly to make laws, and National / Planetary sovereignty carefully protected.

 

Most Council hosts killed the major planet's Council veto power, allowed passage of resolution with a simple majority, and added the Guarantees -- usually based on the familiar US Bill of Rights, but a few hosts used the human rights charter signed after World War II. I vaguely remember a few other snips and tucks, but the TOS TM constitution is reasonably playable.

 

There remained a classic problem of having a defined set of Guarantees while the enforcing federal over government does not have police powers, cannot violate the sovereignty of its member planets, thus how does one enforce the Guarantees? This problem exists in the real world US and UN, so why shouldn't the Federation have the same problem? In the Council sims, we argued the issue every year or three, and resolved it on a case by case basis. Joy would argue that the obligation to protect the lives and Guaranteed Rights of Federation Citizens on Federation Soil were the only justifications for the Federation interfering with a member government's right to run its own planet as it pleases. (She was famous for finding a firm line and trying to apply it consistently. Androids are like that.)

 

Joy frustrated a few hosts who tried to run scenarios based on Federation member planets running their planets poorly, so someone would propose that the Federation Council should take over the planet to improve on local policies. Planets would not join the Federation if they knew they would loose sovereignty, so it is appropriate that sovereignty is protected by the constitution. Thus, the Prime Directive, do not interfere with the normal development of any society, has echoes in the constitution. It is also generally true, with the player characters all representing sovereign planets, they listened to Joy's arguments for planetary sovereignty with considerable attention. The hosts, in some sense representing the Federation's executive branch, often argued for increased central power for the Federation. They ran into a firm player insistence on things like legislative oversight of the executive, limited powers of the central government, and civilian control of the military. The TOS TM Constitution gave them all the clout they needed.

 

Or they usually did. The Council generally split into two loosely organized alliances. The Idealists, Doves or Roddenberries would square off against the Pragmatists, Hawks or Bermen. Usually, the Idealists would have a slight working majority, but the hosts would take on the role of Pragmatists to try to maintain a balance of power. There were times, however, notably during the Dominion War, when the Hawks dominated the Council, and the Idealists were the loyal opposition.

 

I have a vague notion, whenever the diplomats agree on something significant, of writing it up and sending it back to Council for ratification. I'd post it as a poll on these forums. Obviously, Fred didn't count the last such poll as binding. We got the Ramson investigation rather than Joy getting her subpoena, but Ramson's appearance does feel like a reasonable San Francisco style compromise between Council and Starfleet Admiralty. Joy with a subpoena would likely shatter some character's grasps on reality. As Darth once said of the Emperor, Joy would be less forgiving than Ramson. :D The host giving some control over plot resolution to the players does add something. It raises the stakes of the diplomatic game, and increases the quality of the rhetoric considerably.

 

Admiral Goran giving up control of anything, on the other hand, seems far fetched at this point. :D

 

Am I blathering yet?

 

Anyway, all this is down stream a bit. First, the junior officers need to organize a revolt, to break people out of the brig... We have such delicious chaos just now, it would be a shame to loose it too quickly. :D

 

Certainly, a glass of water at Red Star would be a fine thing. B)