Sky Harbor Aegis???

[Sevolth Sidega 0]

Don't worry, I've got some stuff planned that might focus some folks attention.

 

It might be a bad thing you mentioned where you were getting your Fed. Constitution info from. I'm sure I can find some loopholes.

 

But honestly, I find it troubling to use something as non-canon as that to base such hard and fast rules on since there are other just as equal sources (FASA's ST:RGP "The Federation" source book also had legal and political info). Also, bringing in info set up in other sims adds some color but shouldn't be made binding on anyone.

 

EDIT: Actually, it seems the FASA book took liberally from the Star Fleet Technical Manual. But still, these two books contradict eachother in places and ST Canon contradict both.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Sevolth Sidega

[Philip Carst 0]

Woah...

 

Too bad we aren't back a few hundred (or I guess a thousand) years. Then we could burn the diplomats for being witches and heretics...

[Joy 0]

But honestly, I find it troubling to use something as non-canon as that to base such hard and fast rules on since there are other just as equal sources (FASA's ST:RGP "The Federation" source book also had legal and political info). Also, bringing in info set up in other sims adds some color but shouldn't be made binding on anyone.

 

I look at the credits on the TOS TM and think it as canon as anything. Granted, it is dated as heck, and Roddenberry later decided that starships with an odd number of nacelles were a no no, but to my knowledge nothing done in the TNG eras and beyond contradicts the constitution.

 

And I'm not suggesting that the conventions and interpretations we came up with in CPA will always trump, that the diplomats and players here will always come to the same conclusions and similar compromises. Even CPA edited to what each host thought best for the game he wanted to run, and Fred should of course do the same if he feels the need. I sent Fred a few notes shortly after Joy started on Aegis, talking theory of political games, giving him an idea where Joy is coming from, expressing a concern that a Roddenberry character might not want to throw too much weight around in a Berman sim. Thus far he hasn't written back saying stop, so I'm running Joy true to her played history. If other players have different ideas, propose them, argue for them, let's go for it.

 

I would be troubled, though, if Fred and / or STSF decides that principles such as civilian control of the military, the Guaranteed Rights of Sentient Beings, diplomatic immunity, diplomatic courtesy and similar stuff don't exist in their version of Trek. I'm assuming something at least vaguely compatible with canon, not mirror universe. I would find a version of Trek where Starfleet does not feel obliged to support a Federation ambassador seeking to promote interstellar cooperation and peace very strange.

 

It looks like CPA is looking to restart a Council format sim, but is expanding it beyond the Star Trek genra. Their site has a constitution, Guarantees, and what not. I haven't looked to see how the host has edited yet, so I can't say if he is canon, but I do know he is experienced with the format. They are looking for ambassadors, if anyone wants to try the format.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Joy

[Kallah Ramson 0]

This brings up something that has troubled me with the way ST has been seen for a while now. Star Fleet is not military in any current form we know. TOS' whole "5 year mission" was exploration and diplomatic. Ship Captains are the primary diplomatic core; making first contact, negotiating treaties and trade agreements, settling regional disputes, and the like. This had alot to do with the optimistic TOS view that the fleet wasn't something to be threatened by. The "military" wasn't held in check by some powerful governmental body, it was held in check by the basic moral fabric of the Federation as a whole.

 

And miring a sim in legalism can destroy the fun of the game. But so does characters doing things Star Fleet officers never would do. Usually one creates the other and then you have a trial sim which are the WORST.

[Joy 0]

And miring a sim in legalism can destroy the fun of the game. But so does characters doing things Star Fleet officers never would do. Usually one creates the other and then you have a trial sim which are the WORST.

 

Joy touched upon this in character in the old Council log Mythic Warrior Not. I posted the full log along Joy's basic bio in the Aegis Bio thread. The core runs...

 

Ambassador Stuart proposed that if we do provide assistance, it should be provided by some organization other than Starfleet. I shall let Tasha make her own arguments for why this should be so. I do not question that she is sincere and well meaning in her arguments. However, I disagree.

 

One of her points was that Starfleet's role is to defend the Federation. It should not be deflected or dispersed away from this mission. Other organizations should take up other roles.

 

Once upon a time, when this unit served on USS Aurora, there was a myth that Starfleet was not a military organization. We were explorers. We were diplomats. We were scientists. We were humanitarians. We were anything and everything we had to be, with one exception. We were not warriors. We were not soldiers. Starfleet was not a military organization.

 

True or not, this fiction, myth or doctrine had a basis in establishing the Starfleet tradition and mind set. When confronted with a problem, the problem was to be solved if at all possible using the tools, methods and approach of diplomats, scientists, explorers and humanitarians. Officers could not and must not think of themselves as soldiers first. If officers think of themselves as soldiers, they will think in terms of military doctrines and solutions. This leads to violence. When this unit went through Starfleet Academy, in every class, in every way, violence was the last resort, the approach to be avoided, the wrong way to solve any problem. Awards and honors would not be given for performing violent actions well. If one had to resort to violence, one had failed, failed, in one's training, doctrine, and the basic mission of Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets.

 

We have lost this habit, this subtle distinction, this pattern of approaching any given problem from any perspective but violence and force. The Dominion and Borg have done this to us. They have brought us full circle. Once it was proposed, no matter that Starfleet was our sword and our shield, that this knight in shining armor was not a warrior. Now it is proposed that Starfleet is a warrior only. That the role of warrior is so dominant, so strong, so necessary, that our warriors can not be spared to perform any other function.

 

And it is not just Star Trek, where Berman's darker vision of the future slowly replaced Roddenberry's. In a broad trend, much of science fiction has shifted emphasis from how new technology might change human existence to space opera. Space ships have replaced horses. Ray guns have replaced six shooters. Still, if one does not watch it, science fiction becomes just another format for your basic good guy shoots bad guy plot line. You lose the aspect of exploring ideas.

 

Yes, you can have too many legalisms. If one creates a few hundred General Orders that specify precisely how a Starfleet Officer must behave, things get very constricted. (FASA's Star Trek role playing game walked a bit too far down that path for my taste, and is considered non-canon for good reason. Canon, I vaguely recall a TNG episode where Picard argued an over riding principle that claimed there ought not to be many over riding principles. Ethics and conscience are to be preferred over rules.) If one sticks with a few broad principles such as noninterference, avoiding violence, and seeking cooperative rather than competitive relationships, there is still lots of room to maneuver. Thus, it might be appropriate to reference the US Bill of Rights and call them the Guarantees, but I wouldn't want to invoke the full US legal code.

 

Anyway, Joy is an unashamed Idealist, a follower of Saint Roddenberry, but even Kirk's and Picard's crews carried phasers. Kirk's people weren't particularly shy about using them. There is room for balance. Aegis, at least, currently has aspects of both styles. I think it would be a bad idea for advocates of either extreme to try to push all their opposites into long turbo life shafts or short airlocks.