TOS Warp Factors

[HyperDrive 0]

I was watching an episode of TOS yesterday (That Which Survives, Production 69... and yes, I had to look it up), and the USS Enterprise had a matter/antimatter integrator sabotaged by an alien. Due to this, the Enterprise continued to speed up.

 

At one point, the woman at Helm (Sulu was on the planet) said that the Enterprise was at "warp 12 and climbing".

 

Now, we all know that we cannot go above warp 10. Did the USS Enterprise in TOS follow a different warp scale in that time period?

 

Just curious - I couldn't figure that one out.

 

~HD

[Garnoopy 0]

There is some sort of conversion formula (I'm not that much of a nerd to know off hand) but I do know that the TOS series did follow a different warp factor system.

[Tovan 0]

my thoughts exactly   :D

[Travis Kroells 0]

Yes, I cant remember which star trek magizine issue I read it in...But the TOS ships flew much much slower, roughly our warp 6-7.  When Starfleet designed faster engines, it didnt make much sense to say jump to warp 25 so they reworked the scale to modern speed.

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Given what's been seen thus far on Enterprise, The Original Series and The Next Generation, I think it's logical to assume the warp factor charts were updated numerous times.

 

During Archer's day, Warp 100 may have been what would become Warp 10 in TNG.

 

During Kirk's day, Warp 15 would have been Warp 9 in Picard's day, etc.

[Travis Kroells 0]

::Still rumaging through his ST: the magizine for the offical answer::

[LoAmi 0]

I think the TOS formula is (warp factor)^3*c.  (c=light speed)  I believe the formula was invented by fans after the series was cancelled and was written into the non-canon (TOS) Starfleet Technical Manual.  If I remember correctly, the TOS Enterprise once reached "Warp 14" in the episode with the Kelvins.

 

The TNG number is based on an exponential-like curve drawn by one of the technical designers, rather than an equation.  From what I've heard, the curve (published in canon TNG tech manual?) is actually quite hard to fit to any expression, but can be approximated.   I don't know if we have any evidence for when the change took place.  What system they were using in ST:I-VI is hard to tell; they rarely if ever used a number to refer to the warp speed.  The speed of the Klingon BOP in ST:IV is one example of where they do, and it seems to indicate that warp 10 was considered something special to them, but not necessarily with the same meaning as it has in TNG (infinite speed).  [Aside: the scene makes no sense whatsoever on any known warp scale; starting from earth, and heading towards the sun, as soon as they accelerated, they should've bypassed the sun much faster than they actually did.]

 

If this is all correct, TNG's warp 10 is *not* warp 100 on the TOS scale.  It is infinite speed (still much higher than 1,000,000*c!) on the TOS scale.

 

The future timeline in the series finale of TNG includes a reference to "warp 13" that puzzles fans every time it's aired.  Two explanations:

1. It's a Q fantasy

2. The warp scale had to be reworked and a different speed was defined as infinite.  It actually makes quite a bit of sense, because there is a *huge* difference in speed between warp 9.997 and warp 9.998 (remember, it's close to an exponential increase).  I'm quite surprised it was *not* done for Voyager; of course, it becomes more important as cruising speeds get higher: the captain and helmsman shouldn't have to regularly differentiate between "warp 9.998" and "warp 9.9998."

 

I can't think of any evidence offhand that Enterprise uses a different scale than TOS.  Is there any?

 

The only constant between all of them is that warp 1=c.

 

As a side note, I still think that Voyager episode where Paris breaks warp 10 should be stricken from the canon and the writers executed.   :D

[DrDMatthews 0]

::reads the posts and shakes her head::

 

Geeze.....all you guys need are the uniforms!

 

::quietly retreats::

[Travis Kroells 0]

Hey there,

 

Given what's been seen thus far on Enterprise, The Original Series and The Next Generation, I think it's logical to assume the warp factor charts were updated numerous times.

 

During Archer's day, Warp 100 may have been what would become Warp 10 in TNG.

 

During Kirk's day, Warp 15 would have been Warp 9 in Picard's day, etc.

Err...Fred I have a problem with that statment.

 

Lets go hypthetical for a moment, and say that Archers warp 100, would be warp ten in modern startrek.

 

That would estimate roughly to every warp ten in ENT would average out to 1 warp in TNG...

 

Right now, the ENT's max speed is like warp 5, or 4 if Im wrong.  That would roughly mean that they are .5 lightspeed in modern terms....Now...I dont know how fast sublight speed is...but that no way possible for the distance they've traveled.  

 

::Throws two pennys in a collection bin::

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

It was a generalization Mr. Kroells. Not an actual conversion formula. :D

[Vex Xiang 0]

::Throws two pennys in a collection bin::

 

::notices the "Save Xiang from Himself" fund is growing nicely...dumps contents of the collection bin into his pocket::

[Sovak 0]

As a side note, I still think that Voyager episode where Paris breaks warp 10 should be stricken from the canon and the writers executed.   :D

Agreed.  In respect to that episode, I have to quote Quark from Star Trek the Experience, in Vegas, when I overheard him talking about the Star Wars movies: "Oh yes, I've seen those!  They were wonderful Comedies!"

[Vex Xiang 0]

The warp speed charts can be broken down very simply...

 

1) Light Speed

2) Ridiculous Speed

3) Ludicrous Speed

[Travis Kroells 0]

Hey there,

 

It was a generalization Mr. Kroells. Not an actual conversion formula. :D

Hey, you could of said that before I went and made and arse of my self.

[Anika818 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be), but I thought that Lt. Paris reached warp 10.  I didn't think he exceeded warp 10 ???

[Anika818 0]

you know what that ::points up:: was supposed to be a confused smilie face.  It looks pretty sad to me.  ::thinks: maybe the confused smilie had a bad day?!:

[Nemesis 0]

Paris and Janeway had lizard babies ::snickering:: :D

[Tovan 0]

uhg..

[Tovan 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be), but I thought that Lt. Paris reached warp 10.  I didn't think he exceeded warp 10 ???

i think we are lost in the formulas of warp factors ::raises an eye brow::

[LoAmi 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be), but I thought that Lt. Paris reached warp 10.  I didn't think he exceeded warp 10 ???

Doesn't really matter which.  Either way, it's a ridiculous assertion based on everything else we know.

[Vex Xiang 0]

If Warp 10 is infinite, wouldnt it be impossible to exceed Warp 10?

 

How can you exceed infinite velocity?

[LoAmi 0]

All I'm trying to say is: achieving 'infinite speed' is equally meaningless.

 

Here's one way to interpret exceeding it, though:

Infinite speed gets you anywhere in 0 time.  That means that you arrive at your destination (and, every other destination, for that matter) the moment you leave.  Exceeding infinite speed gets you anywhere in negative time.  That means you get there before you left -- in other words, backwards time travel.

[Images 0]

Here's one way to interpret exceeding it, though:

Infinite speed gets you anywhere in 0 time.  That means that you arrive at your destination (and, every other destination, for that matter) the moment you leave.  Exceeding infinite speed gets you anywhere in negative time.  That means you get there before you left -- in other words, backwards time travel.

::Riker runs up behind Picard and taps him on the shoulder.::

 

PICARD: Will! what are you doing here i just sent you into the future?!

 

RIKER: No Cap, i'm back from the future!

 

PICARD: Great scott! ::faints::

 

BACK TO THE FUTURE: THE NEXT GENERATION

[FredM 0]

Hey there,

 

Something to keep in mind. For a long time, moving faster than the speed of sound was seen as infinite speed by some.   :D

[Tovan 0]

Here's one way to interpret exceeding it, though:

Infinite speed gets you anywhere in 0 time.  That means that you arrive at your destination (and, every other destination, for that matter) the moment you leave.  Exceeding infinite speed gets you anywhere in negative time.  That means you get there before you left -- in other words, backwards time travel.

::Riker runs up behind Picard and taps him on the shoulder.::

 

PICARD: Will! what are you doing here i just sent you into the future?!

 

RIKER: No Cap, i'm back from the future!

 

PICARD: Great scott! ::faints::

 

BACK TO THE FUTURE: THE NEXT GENERATION

HAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHA that IS FUNNY some how