John_Anderson

I've been doing something thinking about this whole time travel thing and I got to wondering. How was it that the Enterprise-E was able to get back to it's own timeline in First Contact? If the very action of going back in time creates a new time line, and alternate universe, then how was that possible? Is it that they were able to go back to their present because they were always a part of their past? That question got me to wondering this: What if the timeline we all know and love is actually an alternate timeline, created by the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: First Contact? We know that Zephram Cochrane was motivated by money. He wanted to get rich. He was flying the Pheonix for his own personal goals. So, in the "mirror universe" he shoots the Vulcans that land on earth and steal their ship and use their technology for himself, thus beginning the Imperial Starfleet. Would that have been what happened, had the Borg not gone back in time, forcing the Enterprise to follow and thus changing history, or, rather, becoming a part of it? Would Cochrane, not having been told that he must usher in a new era of peace and prosperity for mankind, have fired on the vulcans? Hmmm...

Well, the easy answer for this is that the Enterprise-E had always gone back in time after the second Borg attack on Earth to prevent the Borg from assimilating a 21st century Earth.

In the mirror universe though, we could simply assume that the Borg had never attacked Cochrane before his warp flight, and that could have resulted in Cochrane never meeting Picard and the Enterprise crew. That could also result in Cochrane taking a shotgun to the Vulcan's and stealing their ship, starting the Earth Empire, the leading major event in that universe that lead to the alternate time line... or Cochrane was really a jerk in the end, and all he cared about was money.

Either way, Picard and crew were always meant to help Cochrane in his warp flight in their time line. They just never knew it.

Hey look, Orci just explained everything I said... His just sounded much better then mine though :P

Well, we have to remember that there are also different theories involving Time Travel.

This film follows the theory that traveling back in time, and causing a new event to occur (ala the Kelvin being destroyed) would indeed create a new timeline, but that this new timeline would essentially be an alternate Earth. This also leads into the whole Multiverse concept that people believe stem from this. That theory believes there are multiple Earths in multiple dimensions that exist, but one Major event (ala the Nazi's winning WWII, or Nuclear Annihilation back in the 60's) occurred that created a divergent timeline, creating a whole new dimension.

So, we can infer that Old Spock knew it was pointless to travel back into the future, because the timeline would already be different anyways from his timeline. So he knows that he is trapped in this new alternate timeline. We can also figure that he knew that there would be no threat to the new timeline to reveal himself to his younger counterpart, so we get a face to face between young and old Spock. I'm sure Doc Brown would be happy to know that a paradox didn’t occur that would wipe out the known Universe.

There's also the theory of course that no matter what anyone’s does, even if they are capable of traveling backwards through time, events are still destined to occur the same way no matter what. Sure, you could maybe change a factor or 2, but the same Major event is always meant to happen. Obviously this camp of theorists isn't as big as the other camp, but it does warrant a look at...

Wow, Time Travel really does make my head hurt sometimes. :P

EDIT: Edited for some typo's

It wasn't a bad movie. I knew they were reinventing/rebooting/renewing/reviving err..anything else? .. Star Trek going into the film. Was it a 150 million investment that can launch another..Star Trek Generation of fans. Sadly, I don't think it will.

 

I said it before somewhere...this reminded me of a reboot of "Lost in Space" done several years ago. Another film was not made. I just don't think another film will be made at this time. Yes it made 76 million first extended weekend. But the next blockbuster is due next week so the box office dropoff will be big.

I have to disagree with you there sir. A few points, first, I think this will bring a lot of people into the fold that may not have given Star Trek a chance. I'll use my own brother as an example. My brother would be the total opposite of a Star Trek fan, he has had zero interest in it, and use to tease me about being a fan many years ago when I was little. I dragged him to go and see it over the weekend, and afterwards he told me he really enjoyed the movie, and that he couldn't wait to see more of it. I was pleasantly surprised that he enjoyed the movie as much as he did.

Second, pretty much everyone behind the scenes is already saying the sequel has been given the green light by Paramount, with Paramount seemingly doing this a couple of weeks before the movie hit. They knew the buzz before hand was pretty strong, and that the movie was going probably going to be pretty successful for them.

This movie is showing stronger legs already then Wolverine at the box office. Sure it has to compete with Angels and Demons this weekend, but I doubt that Angels and Demons will cut that much into Star Trek's take. They are 2 completely different movies with different audiences.

Star Trek will probably be this years Iron Man, and I'd guess it'll finish close in the 200-250 million range domestic at the box office. It will probably finish the year out behind Transformers and Harry Potter in terms of total gross for the year, which being third behind those is pretty big. Paramount will also makes tons of money on the DVD release too.

So we can expect in probably a couple more weeks for Paramount to put the official word out that sequel is good to go, probably for the summer of 2011 I'd figure. I don't know when we might see it in 2011 as Marvel has an ridiculous amount of movies coming out (Spider-man 4, Thor, and Captain America) but we'll see.

I know I can't wait for the sequel to come out already :)

While this is described in the comic book that was released with the film, it's not considered canon.

 

While this is a good attempt to explain why the Narada could wipe out a fleet of seven Federation starships (even if they were a century old), it doesn't make any more sense to outfit a mining ship with retrofitted Borg tech than it does to arm it to the teeth with torpedoes.

And don't forget a Klingon armada of some 40+ ships.

The writers of the movie themselves have said that not everything in the comic has to be considered canon. It really just expands on the whole Romulus getting destroyed and Nero's motivation to destroy everything in his path. A lot of the other stuff, like the changes to the TNG crew in that future, can be left to the fans to decide.

The other question you pretty much answered yourself though ;)

I thought you'd guys would appreciate this. It stars Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto trying to convince the hardcore fans to give the new movie a chance. I thought it was pretty hilarious, especially at the end.

Star Trek on SNL

Nero's ship was awfully well equipped for a "mining" vessel. Big drill that cuts through planets like butter. Next they'll tell me the Death Star was only mining Alderaan.

Actually the Narada had been outfitted with a prototype nanotech that the Romulans had stored away in case of a major attack on the empire. It's actually retrofitted Borg tech applied to Romulan tech. So it could take any ship, in essence, and turn it into a mondo huge killing machine, capable of adapting and even assimilating other ships and tech to make itself better. Even a little mining ship.

I wouldn't presume to speak for Harper and Kansas, but given what I know about the foundations of the Agincourt sim, I think it would be impossible to incorporate events from the Trek reboot into that particular sim. Agincourt is set in the late 2390s, 20+ years after the end of Nemesis. Most of the major races, including Romulans, were woven into the fabric of the imagined future. No more Romulus? Yeah, that probably won't work. Ironically, my original plan was to blow up earth. ;)

 

One of the reasons I started work on the creation of the Agincourt sim is the fact that there were no sims in STSF that dealt with events beyond the final TNG movie. There were no movies in the works at the time, so Harper and I (with contributions from other GMs) essentially established our own "alternate reality" with imagined events in the 20 year gap and political circumstances that seemed to logically follow.

 

I think the new movie just makes a sim like Agincourt and Talon, who already follow their own parameters, more unique and more imaginative for a role-player. Our forum is very diverse and I think there's room for sims that incorporate the new movie as much as those who cannot.

Seems like you were almost there, just now Romulus can now be Earth ;P

I wouldn't expect for any of the GM's to just go racing in and change there ongoing plans simply to make the new Trek movie work for newer players. It really is just something new that I'd be interested to see, if anyone is willing to go for it of course, to tie it into some of the sims. The best thing to probably do anyways would be to establish a new sim or two into this new Star Trek. That way we can still point some of the newer players in that direction, towards the new sim, but still preserve the other sims. And it would also give us a chance to expose them to the already established sims also.

But like I said, it's just my 2 pennies ;)

I totally concur.

 

But I do think Fred has a point that isn't neatly waved away by the the alternate timeline wand: The events Spock "Prime" described about the supernova and the destruction of Romulus are presumed to have happened in the classic "original" timeline - or at least the timeline in a couple of years. Certainly the film meant for the elder Spock to be "our" Spock. Even if an STSF sim continues on as if the 2358 events of the film simply happened "elsewhere", they probably need to clarify if they intend to include the supernova and its effects as part of their upcoming canon. Or at least, be ready to.

 

I think I know where Agincourt and Talon stand on this (a'gin it), but it's something the host team for each sim should think about and eventually let their players know. Which is one reason I know it's being talked through on the Host Boards.

Well those events , like Romulus being destroyed, happen many years after the events of Nemesis. So sims like Agincourt and Talon can continue on as if those events haven't happened yet. Of course, going to back to some of the things I mentioned earlier, I'd be curious to see some of the GM's try to incorporate it into the sims.

And to be honest I think that could add some new interest to those sims, or maybe even a new sim that ties into those events. It really just open a lot of new doors that could attract a lot of those newer people who will be stumbling across the sims out of curiosity after watching the new movie.

Of course, thats just my 2 cents.

They could have done more to fill in the gap between Nemesis and the begining of Star Trek. For example, we know that Ambassador Spock was free to operate openly on Romulus but we're not really sure how this came into being. It would have extended the movie, however, which was already over 2 hours.

The Star Trek Countdown book did actually expand on post-Nemesis Trek and some of the things Spock was up to on Romulus. It was a story that served as a passing of the baton from TNG crew to the new TOS crew, and did it very well. It was written by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman who were two of the main writers of the new movie.

So, if you didnt get it, run to Amazon or your nearest book store (or comic book store!) and get the Star Trek Countdown TP for this awesome story ;P

(I never shy away from being a sales whore. I'm actually writing this from work too lol)

Sorry, but I don't see how destroying the Kelvin could account for Chekhov having dirty-blond curly hair.

Well duh, obviously Chekhov's hair stylist was on the Kelvin and probably got killed, ergo leading to his different hair.

So ha! Wrap your head around that. ;)

Saw it and I LOVED IT. It just brought back the core elements of the series to a whole new generation of trekdom. Since this has spoilers I still give the warning anyways:

They pretty much do acknowledge that due to the events of the Kelvin, leading to the destruction of Vulcan, this timeline has become an alternate reality, where nothing really the way it was previously established (Through TOS and up). From a RP standpoint, this does allow the hardcore fans (as some of you are ;)) to continue on their merry lives living in the original lore of Star Trek.

This film does however setup a very fascinating future to me for Star Trek, with Vulcans as an endangered species, which makes me think of BSG now that someone mentioned it lol. This also leaves the door open for more stories obviously. I'd be curious to see what some of the GM's could come up with involving essentially this new TOS reality, which I'll call the Ultimate TOS (if you're a comic fan, you'll get this). Not to mention some of the events in TNG timeline which could be considered canon (ala Romulus being destroyed.) Like I said, it leaves a lot to be explored.

Nemoy was probably the highlight for me in the movie, as just seeing him was great. He can sit and read the phone book and I'd be entranced in what he was saying. Everyone though did a fantastic job with their roles though, with Karl Urban as my other personal favorite in the movie as Bones. I wanted more Bones dammit! lol Nero is a great addition to the group of Star Trek baddies, as Eric Bana was just downright scary and creepy.

The lines were always a nice touch and just made me laugh like a maniac. And I loved the ending leading to the credits. It gave me goosebumps lol.

All in all, a great entertaining movie, that was huge and grand, and paid a great service to Star Trek. It may leave some of the hardcore fans a little upset, but I will definitely be seeing it again several times, even this weekend lol.

With Love,

John

P.S. Told you guys this movie would be EPIC, back to WoW for me ;P

This thread is starting to worry me... Cupid Eomer?

Anyways, if anyone is interested in some spoilers, I've been reading the Star Trek Countdown Comics (yes, I still work in a comic shop) and well, lets just say they are planning a couple big changes to ST Lore already. The only ones I've seen so far are taking place in the TNG time period, several years after Nemesis (and yes sadly, they still have Remans creeping around). I've also been able to deduce some things just from watching the trailer about a million times, as well as having the pleasure of reading the comic.

So if any if you guys see me lurking about, and want some spoilers, I'd be more then happy to share :o

But, if you can, try and track down the Star Trek Countdown comic. Because as a big Star Trek AND Comic Book nerd, its been my favorite book for the past couple of months.

Saw the new trailer, and I couldnt help but think of you all. I just want to say:

This... movie... will... be... EPIC

In the interest of full disclosure, when I heard about Abrams taking over, I was a little hesitant, but I always keep an open mind. I thought "Maybe this guy can do something amazing with this franchise." As much as I like to cling to stuff, the Trek franchise is in dire need of a makeover, and I think this movie will hook a new generation of people to the wonder that is Star Trek.

When I saw the new trailer in front of Quantum of Solace, you could not remove my jaw from the floor. I enjoyed the 2 mins of the trailer more then the new Bond movie (and yes, I actually did like the new Bond movie). My friends who were with me told me after "I'm not much into Star Trek, but that movies looks like it'll be damn good." May can not come soon enough!

Just thought I'd fly out of my years long limbo to throw some cents in the tub :P

::Goes back to his cubbyhole to play WoW::

Dear God, dont you people have jobs and lives to get to. Instead, you're going to 3 day geekon. Jeez... losers. ;P

::Returns to his solitude of World of Warcraft in his dark cubby hole::

P.S. I will be with you all in thought this year. That and I'll just enjoy it vacariously through NDak anyways, since he'll tell me all about it. Take lots of pictures. :P

::Has a sudden flash back of work:: NOOO! NO MORE DICE! IT BURNS US!!!

AHHHHHHHHH!!

<~~~~ Hates anything that isn't a D6

Oh my... there are just so many quotes that I love... to name a few I'd start with one of my favorite ones, when Babylon 5 broke off from Earth Alliance:

"This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw, .. or be destroyed."

"Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship."

"Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

One from Ivanova:

"This is the White Star Fleet. Negative on surrender...we will not stand down."

"Who is this? Identify yourself."

"Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth ... I am Death incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me."

Just name a few. :P

Mmm.... donuts...

 

lol, I really only have donuts about once every two or three months, but I do like them. My favorites are: Dunkin plain old fashioned, Dunkin chocolate frosted, real apple cider donuts made anywhere, and Krispy Kreme glazed...

 

::drools all over keyboard::

A woman after me own heart... :ph34r: :P

I think I need 13 months to stockpile the liquor... and maybe prepare... yea... or both even. I like that more.

::Falls over and dies laughing:: Ohhh... good times.

Happy Belated Birthday Dac!

You salsa like no other. :P

I saw it in my backyard. It's always so nice to see a shuttle launch.

It tends to give me goosebumps. :lol:

Since the USA is out already, I'm still rooting for either England or Argentina to win it all. You just watch out, Argentina might just surprise some people.

I know it's silly to go against Brazil... but I loathe Brazil's team... yea, I'm a bad person.

Pffft. When your in college and the $5 value meal at McDonalds look like it'll cost you too much, you can't really buy an $18.99 steak. Like I said... I still wish I had that 50% discount, it'd be nice to splurge a little now and then...

That and we all know that everything in California is wayyyyyy overpriced anyways. :lol:

Oh yes, the Latin Quater has some of the most delicious food in Orlando... but this...

Churrasco Shirt Steak - Grilled marinated shirt steak served with Chimichurri sauce over garbanzo frito and chorizo sausage. $18.99

THIS is one of the BEST steaks I have ever had in my life. If you feel like shelling out the cash for it, it's worth it. I miss the days of my 50% discount at the Latin Quater, if not I'd have it alllll the time :lol: